Lilian Jorgenson | Long and Foster Real Estate
About This Episode
”Buying or Selling a Home? Knowledge is everything!”
Join John as he speaks with top producing and award winning agent, Lilian Jorgenson. Lilian shares her wealth of knowledge on fielding offers, contracts and contingencies, appraisals and home inspections, and much more. Whether you are a current or future homeowner, buyer or seller, you won’t want to miss this episode!
[00:00:05] Speaker 1 Welcome to another episode of the Go with John Show. I’m John Jorgenson, and today we have my mom, Lilian Jorgensen, back in the studio with us. Welcome, Lilian.
[00:00:15] Speaker 2 Good morning. Welcome.
[00:00:17] Speaker 1 Good morning. Are you awake?
[00:00:18] Speaker 2 Yes, I’m awake.
[00:00:19] Speaker 1 That’s good. All right. So last time you were here, we spoke a little bit about the overall process of of listing your home and selling your home. And then we kind of dug our teeth into staging a little bit and what you need to do to get the home ready to sell. So. So today. So once you get your home staged and you’re ready to listed what happens in the process.
[00:00:43] Speaker 2 Well, we get the house listed and of course, you can listed in a couple of different ways you can listed coming soon, which gives everybody a chance to kind of see the home on the website. On MLS, you can drive by and see the neighborhood before it actually goes on the market and decide if you want to go in and see it or you can go cold turkey and just list the home and it pops up for everybody to see and then they’ll make an appointment to come show.
[00:01:14] Speaker 1 Right. So what are the pros and cons of listing coming soon? Do you like to do come soon or do you prefer to just list your homes?
[00:01:22] Speaker 2 Well, there are pros and cons. There’s a lot of controversy about the coming soon. And we have people who want to see it. We cannot show it right. You have to explain to the sellers that we cannot show the home while it’s coming soon. And when you explain that whole process and often the seller says, well, let’s just go, right? So people were ready, let’s get it on the.
[00:01:43] Speaker 1 Market and and show. So why can’t you show it when it’s coming soon? What prevents.
[00:01:47] Speaker 2 You? That’s against the law.
[00:01:48] Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah, well, it’s against is against MLS policy.
[00:01:53] Speaker 2 Well, yeah, but I mean, that is the law within NBA that you cannot show a home at all during comingsoon. And then we have the buyers that actually analyze everything on the website, write a contract sight unseen in the coming soon stages. Right. And then all of a sudden, the status is changed from coming soon to pending. And buyers who would like to see this home, who’s driven by, who decided this is the home for me, didn’t even have a chance to see it because it’s gone.
[00:02:26] Speaker 1 Right. Right.
[00:02:27] Speaker 2 And so for that reason, often I think that unless the seller really want to be coming soon, I like to just list the house for everybody to have the same chance to see it and right on.
[00:02:43] Speaker 1 It right now. That makes perfect sense. Yep. Yep. Okay, so you get the you get the home listed and you’re in the MLS. Then what happens next?
[00:02:54] Speaker 2 Well, we then, of course, have the showings and there are different ways to show the home. It can be schedule online for appointments, or you as the agent can take the appointments and talk to the agent so we can divide into two groups. I would say when you in the high end market, I like to talk with the agent so I am the showing contact right to get in to see the house and I’ll be there as well to show the house and open up. And that’s what most homeowners like when they’re in the, let’s say, over two, $3 million.
[00:03:34] Speaker 1 Right.
[00:03:35] Speaker 2 Anything below that, we schedule online, you have your showings slot and you bring the buyers in for a 15, 20 minute showing. And hopefully there’ll be lots of activity right away. And then contracts can be looked at as they come in and we send them usually we’ll send them to the seller so they can look at the contract and we will have a contract deadline normally. And if you don’t put a contract deadline in the MLS, we start getting the calls when our contracts do and we get all these questions. So in the market we’ve been in for the last year, I think most of us feel we need a deadline, right? So everybody knows what is going on. Then again, we have had buyers that write a fantastic offer. It is presented to the seller and he says, I like it, let’s just be done. I’m sick and tired of showing my home and then out the window goes to deadline. And then you have all these unhappy buyers who thought there was a contract deadline. And again, they didn’t even have a chance to see it and write on it.
[00:04:52] Speaker 1 Right. And I think the interesting thing is that, you know, the seller and the buyer can really do whatever they want. You know, we as agents are in. Queen and you sit down with a seller and you have a offer. DEADLINE But the seller is allowed to change their mind.
[00:05:13] Speaker 2 Absolutely. We work for the seller. It is in the sole discretion of the seller. And sometimes sellers don’t realize what it all means with showings and they have to leave home. They’re practically gone for days and days because people are coming into the home all the time. Right. And all of a sudden enough is enough. I’ve had it. We have a good contract. It’s more than we expected. Let’s just take it. Right, right. So. Yeah.
[00:05:40] Speaker 1 Yeah. And just, you know, buyers can change their mind, too. Yeah. You know, it’s a buyer can write an offer on a house and before it’s ratified, the buyer can withdraw the offer. So, yeah, you know, and that’s I think that’s one of the things that maybe makes people a little crazy in the real estate world, is that we’re all humans and we’re all dealing with humans and and things kind of change a little bit along the way. So so when you when you so you list a home, you show the home, and then you get offers in. Now we’re we’re in a transitional point in the market. I feel a lot of people believe this. So we’re we’re having this conversation in May of 2022 and really things over the last two or three weeks have just started to change. So it’s difficult to, you know, have this conversation that’s going to that’s going to live on on on the podcast.
[00:06:37] Speaker 2 Six months from now.
[00:06:38] Speaker 1 Could be a totally different story. Totally different, right? So let’s just pretend for a moment that it’s a buyer’s market. So then what happens when you list because you’ve been through multiple cycles of extreme seller’s markets, you’ve been through multiple cycles of extreme buyer’s market. So what happens in a buyer’s market with showings?
[00:07:00] Speaker 2 Well, everything is definitely a lot more relaxed and with ease and everybody takes their time. You don’t you get a, you know, three or four showings a week.
[00:07:14] Speaker 1 Yeah.
[00:07:15] Speaker 2 And and then again then week after week after week. And then finally, maybe after a month or two, you get an offer. And some sellers will then say, Well, this is really not what I want. Let’s wait a while. And I know we agents are always saying your first offer, if we if we know it’s reasonable, we’ll be your best offer because the longer you’re on the market, the more you’re going to get negotiated. Right? Because why isn’t your house selling? It should have sold. It’s perfect. Why isn’t it selling? The prices obviously wrong. And then they come in with offers. Sellers don’t like the offer and sometimes they’ll wait for the next one. Who will? Which will be less, right?
[00:08:01] Speaker 1 Yeah. And we’ve seen it. We’ve seen the seller who I’ll just make up a number.
[00:08:06] Speaker 2 Sliding down with the market.
[00:08:07] Speaker 1 Right behind the curve. Yeah. Right. You have a house listed for a million and maybe it should have been listed for 950. They get an offer for 950. They don’t like it. The house sits on the market. Maybe then he drops the price to 952 months later and now you get an offer for 900. Right. And we call that being behind the curve. Right. The prices are curving down and the sellers dropping their price too slowly and they’re just sitting right behind the curve, not not selling their home. And it’s really interesting when you’re in such a in fact, there’s a lot of agents that are real estate agents today that have never seen a buyer’s.
[00:08:47] Speaker 2 Market know it’s like, no, oh my goodness, they have no idea. But that’s okay. Then they go at it with a different angle, right to right and they’ll learn. Yes. See, they one day too will be having three years behind them as well.
[00:09:02] Speaker 1 Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s funny on some of the Facebook groups that I’m on that the agents are saying their sellers are upset because they’ve been on the market for two weeks and they don’t have an offer. Yes, yeah.
[00:09:17] Speaker 2 It’s a day.
[00:09:18] Speaker 1 Yeah. So okay, so so we’ve talked a little bit about the seller’s market, the buyer’s market. We’re probably moving into more of a normal market now where sellers are going to list their home, buyers are going to have a chance to go look at two or three, four homes. They’re not going to have to write the offer the second they see a house. It looks like things are normalizing a little bit, but we don’t know, right? It can go either way. It could go either way.
[00:09:40] Speaker 2 But let’s just say also getting the contract as we explain to our sellers when we are taking the listing, they have hired us to do a job and hopefully the sellers will listen to us and take our advice along the way. But getting that contract, finally, whether it’s one days or five days or a month, that’s only 50% of the job. Now we’ve got to hold it together. And the market we are in right now here in May, I mean, March, April, May, we are seeing buyer’s remorse within 24 hours. Right. And you can’t rest on your laurels. And in neighborhoods with archways and condo associations, we are finding that buyers. Well, I can cancel the contract on the FHA or condo docs. Right. And there you are. This happened to me twice in the last two months. And of course, sellers are. I say that because the computer got changed, showing we had an offer, then when you get back on the market, get the next offer. Everybody is questioning what happened. Well, nothing happened except it’s nothing wrong. But Tobias changed their mind. Right? There’s so few opportunities to buy that. They jump at the next property thinking This is what I want and I want to get it now. And then they sleep on it and they’re sorry. So this is a very frustrating market. It is a market unlike any that I have seen in my 37 years in the business. And we think every day we can see something that we haven’t already experienced. Right. But this frenzy and where is all this money coming from? It is amazing. Just two or three years ago, we were fighting over a 5000 or $2,000 counter offer in a contract. More than $1,000,000. Right. Today, they throw another $100,000 on top of the listing price plus escalation. After that, it’s like money is endless. Right. And this is really a scary sign because where is this going to end?
[00:11:55] Speaker 1 Right. Right.
[00:11:56] Speaker 2 There’ll be one day when these houses have to sell again. Yeah. And where is the market then?
[00:12:01] Speaker 1 Exactly.
[00:12:02] Speaker 2 I think the future, of course, is unknowable, but it’s going to be a very different future than we have ever seen in our whole economy. Right. This is Countrywide. Yeah.
[00:12:13] Speaker 1 Yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely. So. So once you see you see you asked about or you asked you spoke about getting the contract ratified and then you have to hold it together. So there’s there’s a lot of things that can happen during the contract phase. So let’s take a let’s take a quick break. And we’ve got to get an ad in from one of our sponsors. And we will be right back. On the other side of the break with more from Lilly and Jorgensen. Good. All right. Welcome back. We’re still here in the studio with Lilian, my mom. Welcome. Thank you. So so thank you for that great description of what happens when you list your home. That’s really interesting information. So tell us about fielding contracts, getting a property under contract and from a listing agents perspective, what happens and what do you do?
[00:13:18] Speaker 2 Well, most of the time we get multiple contracts. And of course, we have to make it easy for the sellers to understand. Oh, and by the way, I’ve always gone through the contract with my sellers when I do the well, not right at the taking of the listing, but at some time into the listing period. I will meet with the sellers and go through the contract. So when it comes in they are familiar with the terminology and have an idea of what we have to look for, what paragraphs are important so we don’t have to spend so much time explaining the actual contract, right? So what happens is, say you have six contracts, you can look through, you know, six contracts with 25 pieces of paper on each one. Right. So I highlight the pertinent information and set up a chart and then I meet with the sellers. They have a copy of all the contracts, but we concentrate on the chart showing this one versus this one versus this one. The numbers, the benefit is all about the numbers and the bottom line. Yeah, and there are so many variations. But in the market we’re in, although it is changing, really, it is really changing. The last two contracts, I had a financing appraisal and appraisal contingency and but for months and months and months we have clean contracts coming in with nothing. And except the little squares checked off that appraisers do have to have access to the home. Right. Because if you are getting a loan, you must have an appraisal. But there’s no contingency. Right. So if the home does not appraise, of course the buyers have to come up with the difference. Although now with these huge differences of two and $300,000, sometimes there is a different financing available. You can go to a different program. I just had my buyers be short and didn’t have the extra money to pay for the difference in the appraisal. We didn’t have a contingency. This was our 10th contract trying to get a townhouse and they finally had to waive everything to get a home.
[00:15:38] Speaker 1 Right. So so let’s talk about that, because some folks may not know what a clean contract is. So when you say clean contract, what you mean is.
[00:15:45] Speaker 2 The price settlement date, all the terms that the seller want. Right. We try to get a quick settlement these days, which is 30 days, three or four weeks settlement. And then most of all the sellers would like a two months went back. Right, because they need to move and they need to schedule a mortgage. They can be out in 30 days. And for competition, the buyers are writing free rent back. So essentially everything is done. You sign the contract that night, your house is sold and the only person that has to come back in would be that appraiser to take a look. And then you’re basically done, which of course, is.
[00:16:25] Speaker 1 Awesome, right? Unless there’s an okay, then you have the right.
[00:16:28] Speaker 2 Then as far as coming into the home. Right? Nobody’s coming into the home.
[00:16:32] Speaker 1 Right, right. So that’s a clean contract. So clean contract basically means no contingencies. You’re not doing a home inspection, there’s no financing, blah, blah, blah. The only thing you would have is an A if there is an unfortunately.
[00:16:45] Speaker 2 We have a situation with our wonderful veterans when they buy, they use a VA loan, right. And FHA loans for first time buyers. You cannot waive the appraisal on these loans. And when there are multiple contracts, then nine out of ten times the seller will not take a VA a contract because of the contingency and they take a so-called clean contract with nothing in it. I’m done. I don’t have to worry about anything, and it makes it very, very hard for veterans. And but that’s turning around and things will be, you know, they’ll be better and for them.
[00:17:30] Speaker 1 Right. Yeah. So in a more normal market. So now let’s talk about where where we think things are going, where we’re going to start to see contracts with with the typical contingencies. All right. Proto, typically you would have. So if I’m yeah, if I’m representing a buyer, I want to have a home inspection. Agency. I want to have a financing contingency and an appraisal contingency so that I leave anything out that would be prototypical.
[00:17:59] Speaker 2 That’s what it is. Yeah, because a termite is not a contingency.
[00:18:02] Speaker 1 Right.
[00:18:03] Speaker 2 And and home inspection. We have two choices. You can show the seller your willingness to really work with them and not nickel and dime them. As we say, you have an option for negotiating deficiencies, right? Or you have an option to avoid the contract. Right. And voiding the contract says we’re really going to take care of everything unless there’s a serious problem right now. And that happened to me about six or eight months ago. We had a really serious problem. And no matter and once you have this problem, you have to disclose that they don’t want to contribute to fixing it. Right. You’re listing, you sell it again and you now have to disclose a deficiency. So a seller might as well deal with it with the first contract they get. Right.
[00:18:52] Speaker 1 So let’s talk about that for a second. So home inspection contingency, when you’re writing the contract, you have two choices. You can check. Yes, home inspection or there’s another box you can check where you’re doing a home inspection, but you retain the option to void. So the second checkbox is you’re not going to ask the seller to make any repairs. And that’s where you talk about the nickel and dime and you’re not going to do it. The first option, you’re doing the home inspection and the buyer has the right to come back and say, Hey, Mr. or Mrs. Seller, would you please fix these 15 things? And then you can negotiate again. You basically have a second round of negotiation.
[00:19:30] Speaker 2 And and don’t forget, you actually also can void the contract. Yes, that first.
[00:19:36] Speaker 1 Exactly. And on the second option, you’re just telling the seller, hey, I’m not going to come back and renegotiate anything. But if there’s a major problem or any problem or I want to avoid for any reason, I retain the right to void. Right. So those are the two. So when you have this, this, this problem that that comes up in a house, even if the seller I mean, even if the buyer and the seller have agreed to go with option two, if a big major problem comes up and the buyer wants to walk, you’re saying, hey, Mr. or Mrs. Seller, you should probably fix this anyway because you’re going to have to now disclose it. You’re going to have to deal with it.
[00:20:13] Speaker 2 In the future, bite the bullet. And now you’re in a situation where the buyers love the house, right? But maybe they don’t have the $50,000 for the repair as an example, stucco problem that yes. I ran into and it was a $75,000 repair. Right. And and the buyers had paid well over the list price.
[00:20:35] Speaker 1 Yes.
[00:20:36] Speaker 2 So absolutely. My seller said we’ll take care of it. But sometimes you negotiate. Let’s say it’s all the utilities like the heating and cooling systems are original. They’re about to die and it’s going to cost $30,000 to get new ones. Right. And the buyers could say, we love the house, we really want to buy it, but we feel like we don’t have the 30,000. We feel like it should be in better condition for the price. Right? Would you split it with us and give us a $15,000 credit toward new systems and then that seller can choose to say yes or no. Right? And most of the time the seller will negotiate because they don’t want to lose the deal. Right.
[00:21:21] Speaker 1 Right. Yeah. You know, the interesting thing is, in a in a more normal market, a buyer always feels like they overpaid for the house and a seller always feels like they could have gotten a little more. Yeah. You know and it’s an interesting yeah yeah it it is it’s human nature and it and it’s, you know, so what happens is when you get the contract negotiated and you get into these contingency periods, people start to cool off. Yeah. And then reality sets and, and, and this is.
[00:21:53] Speaker 2 They’ve found another house they like better. Yeah. That’s even worse.
[00:21:57] Speaker 1 That is worse yet. Worse. Worse for the seller. Better for the buyer.
[00:22:01] Speaker 2 Yes, that’s yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All these situations can happen.
[00:22:04] Speaker 1 Exact not.
[00:22:05] Speaker 2 In.
[00:22:05] Speaker 1 Control. Exactly. So, so that’s a little bit about the home inspection contingency. So, so let’s talk a little bit about the appraisal contingencies and the financing contingencies together. So, you know, what kind of scenarios have you run into with with appraisals.
[00:22:23] Speaker 2 Almost any type of scenario you can imagine. So first of all, you need to understand, since the crisis we had in 2000, 2008, with all the foreclosures and short sales in hand because of a different type of market, of course, the appraisals now play a very, very special role. They have changed the ways of doing. The appraiser. In other words, there are no relationships anymore. The lender cannot communicate with the actual appraiser. It is an appraisal company that sends an appraiser out to the property. You can request anybody specifically. So you have to make do, quote unquote with whoever calls you and say, I’m the appraiser for the property. I’ve been retained to do the appraisal. There’s your person, for better or worse. And we are finding that these appraisers are coming into the area from far away, way up in Maryland someplace, Richmond. Fredericksburg, over way over Mt. Vernon, Alexandria. And as you know, appraising a property is a very fine tuned job. Just knowing the area, just knowing the infrastructure and what’s all around the value of the homes, you really have to have your finger on the pulse to come in and say, yeah, this is going to appraise at that price. And no, this is never going to appraise. And you can’t appreciate that unless you really know. So our role is very, very special. We try as agents to find the comps that really go with a home was selling. And then again, some appraisers say, I don’t need your help. I don’t want anything. I do my own job. That’s even worse. That means they’re not cooperating. They want to do their own thing. And we as agents get left really frustrated. But this is what we have to put up with. And so I always try to of course, we get the email information for the appraiser. We email ahead of time, all the information, all the upgrades, the floorplans, anything we have on the property. And then I meet with the appraiser. When he comes to do the job, I always tell my sellers, I need to sell that house twice, first to the consumer and second to the appraiser. And I have to do that job and I have to be there. And and sometimes it’s it’s a very, very fine line. It’s a very difficult job. Sometimes you can’t find something that goes with a home. And now you have to venture into other areas where, you know, the properties are. And then the appraiser will say, well, I don’t that neighborhood that’s too far away, even though it’s not too far away, and one rolls from one zip code to the other 2 to 1 or one, 2 to 1 or two, and they’ll have arguments about that. And yet they’re within a three mile radius of where the appraisers are looking. So that is a really, really, really difficult job. And I’m sure the appraiser, him or herself, are finding that as well. The market has been so volatile and they can’t keep up with what’s happening either.
[00:25:56] Speaker 1 So let’s talk about a maddening scenario with appraisals, because I’ve had this happen several times, and I know you’ve been through it many times. We’ve talked about it at dinner. So you have a house, you sell the house. Let’s say you have a house for 1.8 million, you sell the house. An appraiser comes in and appraises the home for 1.5 million. And you’re saying this is just not right? It’s this this home is every bit of one eight. And you’re you’re going through your your conversation with the appraiser, which often doesn’t help at.
[00:26:28] Speaker 2 All, you know, and you can talk with the appraiser unless you’re in the home.
[00:26:32] Speaker 1 Right.
[00:26:33] Speaker 2 So call him before you can call him after.
[00:26:36] Speaker 1 Exactly.
[00:26:37] Speaker 2 You can only get him or her for any conversation when you meet them at the house. That’s a terrible thing.
[00:26:44] Speaker 1 Well, you can you can appeal through the lender. Yes, yes. Yes, exactly. So so you get this scenario and then the buyer ends up walking because the buyer and the seller can’t come to terms on this 300,000 gap. You sell the house again, you get a second appraiser that comes in and.
[00:27:02] Speaker 2 Everyone is fine.
[00:27:03] Speaker 1 Yeah. So how do you deal with that or what do you say about that? Because for me, that’s the most maddening thing of all, right? Because we as listing agents, we’ve sold the home and now we have an appraiser who comes in who didn’t understand the home, didn’t understand the car.
[00:27:23] Speaker 2 And another whole different area did not, and said, well, what happens is you end up spending hours and hours and days analyzing all this other material for comparables, and then you send it in with an appeal and and then sometimes you don’t get it anyway. Right, right. Yeah.
[00:27:45] Speaker 1 It’s yeah, it’s about 5050 I think about half the time you can make some headway but if you get a three. Hundred thousand dollars gap each on a18 to a15. I’ve never seen an appraisal come up and say, Oh, way out. Okay. It really is one eight. They’ll come up maybe 100,000 or 150. But it’s a difficult scenario. So. So the point is we have to get through the appraisal contingency. And I think that, you know, for the most part over the last four or five years, you know, 18 to 22, we haven’t really had any issues with appraisals at all. Right? Everything’s because we’re we’re in an appreciating market. So the value of the homes are going up. I think the market’s changing. So now we’re going to see how these appraisals come into play.
[00:28:30] Speaker 2 And I think also most of us agents now, when we get a contract, I think maybe all agents, but most of us, we do call the lender before we go through with the contract to our seller. Right. Because the sellers are going to ask, are they qualified? You know, we have to be ready to have all the answers. And talking to the loan officer, you immediately get a feel for that client. You get a feel for the enthusiasm from the lender where they stand. They have actually done a lot more than the lender, Letter says, and that’s another gripe I have. These lender letters can be so generic and you show that to a seller and it’s like, Wow, they haven’t done anything. This doesn’t really mean anything.
[00:29:14] Speaker 1 And right, but you’re right.
[00:29:15] Speaker 2 And you find out, Oh, everything’s been verified and we have everything is ready to go to the underwriters. And I’m questioning, why are you sending that lender letter that says you have to obtain the application from the client and on and on and on. That is not even true. And she they will say, well, you know, that’s the what we have. And I said, No, that’s not what we can accept. Then send me an email and you explain where we are. Yeah, where we are. And with that information, of course, it’s much easier to work with your seller to make them understand. Yeah. And you can shorten the period. You don’t have to accept the long periods of appraisal and financing. I’m shortening to 14 days on an appraisal if that’s what they have, and 21 days, either 14 or 21 days for financing. Right, because they can do it. It turns out they can do the job, but they would like to have more time. So if you give them more time, they just wait till the last. They put you on the back burner for the time slot in doing the job, I have found out. Mm hmm.
[00:30:21] Speaker 1 Mm hmm. Yep. Yep. Okay, so let’s wrap up with the financing contingency. Right? So really, what’s a financing contingency says at a very high level is if you don’t qualify for the specified financing, then you can void the contract.
[00:30:37] Speaker 2 Right. And that’s why you want to have a short deadline. You don’t want to go down 30 days or 45 days. Some agents are putting 45 days. Right to find out that they really can’t get the financing is just too crazy.
[00:30:50] Speaker 1 And one of the tricks now, it’s not it’s not a trick. But I guess one of the I guess it is a kind of a trick bag kind of thing is that if this if the buyer changes their specified. So the specified financing is the financing that you specified in the contract. So if you specified that you were going to have a 30 year fixed mortgage in the financing contingency area of the contract and you switch to a 15 year arm, now you’ve in a sense voided that financing contract.
[00:31:20] Speaker 2 If you did not get permission from the seller in writing that they understand you’re changing the financing, then you have essentially voided your can.
[00:31:31] Speaker 1 Exactly. And a lot of folks don’t know that. So that’s a little tip for the buyers right there that are listening. Yeah, good, good, good. Okay. Anything else you want to add about this? Because I think you’ve done a great job laying it out.
[00:31:41] Speaker 2 No, I think it’s just pretty much. And we’re going to be going back to this. Yes. Again, we’ve just been in this period of six months, a year where or maybe a year where you had to remove everything. And especially home inspection is just not healthy.
[00:31:55] Speaker 1 Right? I agree. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Well, Lilian, mom, thanks for coming in again. You’re welcome. So this will conclude another episode of the Go with John Show. I’m John Jorgenson. Go out there and build something extraordinary.
[00:32:11] Speaker 2 Thank you.
[00:32:12] Speaker 1 Bye bye.