Michael Schnitzer, Pat Kearns, Brian McGranahan
About This Episode
Back by popular demand, John talks to two of Stanley Martin Custom Home’s Project Managers, Pat Kearns, Brian McGranahan, as well as President of SMCH, Michael Schnitzer. They discuss what it means to be a project manager, go into more detail about the process, and discuss the weekly meetings.
[00:00:02] Speaker 1 Welcome back to another episode of the Go With John Show, we’ve got a group of folks here today. We’ve got one of the Stanley Martin project managers with us sitting to my left, Brian McGranahan. We have Michael Schnitzer, president of Stanley Martin Custom Home, sitting at my 12 o’clock. And to my right, we have Pat Kearns, who is the vice president of Stanley Martin Custom Homes. Welcome, gentlemen.
[00:00:28] Speaker 2 Thanks for having
[00:00:29] Speaker 1 us. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Hey, so today I want to talk about just kind of some things that happened in the field. Everybody always loves hearing from the project managers. And Michael, of course. And Pat, you’ve got a lot of positive feedback on your last episode. So what I was going to try to highlight today was kind of what we do at Stanley Martin Custom Homes as we bring our buyers through the process. So I think our buyers generally get a really good education on what happens during the sales phase of the buying phase, depending on perspective. And really they get a good perspective on what happens right after that. But once folks remove their contingency and start moving through the process, let’s talk about the experience from the customer perspective. So, Michael, maybe shed a little light on what kind of updates and meetings, what happens right after somebody removes their contingency?
[00:01:25] Speaker 3 Sure, John. So and I think we’ve covered this perhaps in other episodes, but at the highest level, we’re a manufacturer. Right? Right. We just happen to manufacture homes. Yeah. And we’re project managers. What is 101 in project management? Regular meetings with action items, updates. Right. So that’s the you know, it’s just one to one. It’s blocking and tackling. So throughout our customers process, once they remove contingency, there’s think of it as two phases pre start and start. So pre start our customers get regular updates. Right. And at the start of construction, it’s turned over to the field. And I don’t know if Brian wants to talk a little bit about it or Pat, but chime in. I mean, sure,
[00:02:12] Speaker 1 I was I was just going to say so once we because I want to stress the weekly meetings because I think it’s probably one of the most important things that we do. And I don’t think there’s any other builder on our price point that offers this service. And it’s just to me, it’s everything. Right? So once we start the construction, we have weekly meetings with our customers every week until the home is delivered, correct? Correct. OK, so
[00:02:35] Speaker 2 back it up. Just a step is that as we’re approaching the start of construction, we have a turnover meeting or preconstruction meeting with our customers. We spend several hours with them going over reviewing their plans, their grading plans, the plans for the homes, the specialty items that we’ve listed for them that are specific to their house, whether it be with regard to the engineering on the home, the plans themselves, modifications they made to the house that are particular to them, that are very special, certain selections. They’ve made those things, reviewing those with them. And then we we spend some time to kind of set the expectation for what they should expect from us during the construction process. You know, what it’s going to be like, what kind of things they’re going to experience, both good and sometimes possibly bad being that, you know, building a home is unlike any other experience where when you go in and buy a new car, it’s finished, it’s complete, it’s polished, it’s shiny, it has a new car smell in it. And when you build a home, you’re building on a lot of your lot as our our factory, our warehouse, where we’re actually putting in piecing it together. And there are it’s a great experience. If you’re into and enjoy that kind of thing, you get to watch it. You’re home, be built from the ground up. Right. You know, in some cases when we’re doing teardowns, you get to see the old structure being torn down in the demolition of it. And then you get the watch everything the as the homes built and constructed. So we kind of walk them through that process and tell them what to expect. And then we talk to them about their weekly meetings and what that experience is going to be like.
[00:04:10] Speaker 1 So what do you say to the folks at the preconstruction meeting about the weekly meetings and what they’re going to be like?
[00:04:16] Speaker 2 We tell them that, you know, to this is one of the things that we do. It’s a it’s a way to communicate with them, provide them with a weekly update as to what tasks we’ve accomplished, what’s happened in the House and what to expect in the upcoming weeks. You know, if we’re running into issues, we’ll talk about issues that we may have experienced and how we’re going to correct them. You know, if we you know, if progress is moving along smoothly and everything’s going well, we’ll talk to them about how the progress of the house is coming along and what to expect in the upcoming weeks and even sometimes a little bit further out gives them an opportunity to understand and get a grasp of everything that’s going on in the home. So there aren’t any surprises for them. Right. You know, it also is it’s a benefit to us as well because. RPM’s are then tasked with they have that one time during the week that they know they’re going to have face to face interactions or know during covid face to face over a video chat, you know, conversations with our buyers or clients to let them know what’s going on with the house. And you know what what to expect. And it also, you know, they know at that point in time that, hey, this is the time where I can communicate with them or I can provide them with updates. And it gives them the freedom to do their job and build the house, interact with our contractors inspectors as they need to be doing throughout the day.
[00:05:40] Speaker 1 Mm hmm. Good, good.
[00:05:41] Speaker 4 And it’s interesting because it’s like the once you kind of get in the groove of having the weekly meetings, it’s the same time, the same day every week. And it’s like the customers, you know, at the beginning or are contacting more often with questions and concerns. And then once you kind of get in that groove, they know that that’s the time and place to to bring it up and discuss it with us. And, you know, I think it gives us a good opportunity to, like, use that time to kind of educate them of how the process works and keep keep them up to speed on what the next steps are going to be, what the expectations should be. And it just it’s it it makes it to where it’s it’s it’s a great management tool of keeping everybody informed.
[00:06:31] Speaker 1 Right. And I think the customers probably love knowing what’s going on. And they have the ability to spend time with you, Brian, as a as a PM to to learn about what’s going on within the construction of their home. Yeah.
[00:06:44] Speaker 3 And I would say the the other thing from a high level is accountability because it’s accountability on both sides of the fence. We have to be accountable to the customer with deliverables, but the customer will also have deliverables. Oh, well, you know, sorry, Brian, we didn’t get you the information you needed this week, but we’ll get it to you next week. Well, we you know, we we take meeting minutes, right. So we can look back at this and, you know, several months passed by and sometimes customers forget and said, well, let’s go back and look at our meeting minutes and see what transpired on what day you know, and what when, what week. So I think, you know, level of accountability. And then probably Brian is more equipped than either Pat or I, but trying to hone in on that weekly meaning versus having customers contacting you ad hoc during the day. It’s that 80-20 rule, right? Right. We’re 80 percent of the time. We used to respond to customers and 20 percent built houses. Right. And now we flip the paradigm, right?
[00:07:48] Speaker 4 Yeah. And it’s great because we can get an email or text message from a customer with a question or something, and we can just say, hey, noted, I’m going to throw it on the weekly meeting and then we can discuss it. Now, if it’s something that’s urgent, that needs to be taken care of, obviously we take care of that. Right. But there’s there’s lots of items that come up in the house that that we don’t need to address. Right that second there often the distant future, you know, maybe six weeks out or something. You know, I have customers that’ll, you know, bring up like, well, you know, something about the hydroxy or something. And we’re weeks away from even finishing the grade. So it’s just something you can put on there. You’re not going to forget about it. And then you just keep a placeholder there and you can use that tool to, you know, make sure that you’re you’re keeping track of it.
[00:08:32] Speaker 2 I think the other thing that I that I notice from from the experience is that it reduces the stress level of the client or the buyer, obviously, because there’s that known entity that they have out there that they know they’re going to be communicated with on a weekly basis. They’re provided with a download of information on what to expect and what what’s going to happen with the home. It’s a learning process as well for people that it may not have been through it prior to it. That may not understand the steps in the stages that go into building a home and the complexity of it. Right. So it reduces a lot of that stress value that’s there when you’re going through that process. I mean, let’s look at it from the from the overall perspective. It’s one of the larger, if not largest investment you’re ever going to make. You’re not buying a finished product. You’re watching it come from the ground up. And there can be a lot of stress involved in that with, hey, is this wrong? Is that wrong? Is this you know you know what? What should I expect? And you have a person that’s meeting with you once a week to go over that and kind of lessen that blow and kind of give you a perspective on what you should expect and what what what’s going to happen down the road.
[00:09:40] Speaker 1 Right. And I think when you have the weekly meetings you’re getting, at least you know what’s going on to right. Because if you don’t have the weekly meetings and you’re only talking to your PM once a month or once every six weeks, it could be nothing happened for a month. Right. And then all of a sudden the consumer and this is not with our company. Right. This would be with another builder is realizing. Wow. You guys haven’t done anything for a month that would never happen at Stanley Martin customer,
[00:10:04] Speaker 3 why didn’t you let me know I needed to do X and give me, you know, Y weeks of lead time, right where we cover that because we’re looking out in the future. What do we need to do now to put us in a position to succeed in this with many months from now?
[00:10:21] Speaker 1 Yeah, a month from now. Yeah. And you bring up a good point, because I think most of our customers. So we have some cereal buyers, right? We have some people that buy homes over and over and we
[00:10:30] Speaker 3 sell also to builders that’s just off label. So people don’t even know we’re building for other builders.
[00:10:36] Speaker 1 Exactly. But for the for the consumer who’s doing this once in their lifetime, they don’t know what they have to be thinking about a month ahead of time. Right. So we do. And they’re not expected to know exactly
[00:10:47] Speaker 4 what goes back to where I was. And it’s like it’s a good moment for us to educate them on what what is going to happen next.
[00:10:54] Speaker 1 Right. So so let me ask you, so what happens? So obviously when you just start the construction and you’re doing the demo, what are your weekly meetings look like? Are they are they shorter because there’s not a lot more to talk about or it is something
[00:11:07] Speaker 4 that’s something that we you know, at least I go over with the customers. You know, when you’re doing the foundation, there’s going to be a whole lot to talk about in the weekly meeting. They’re going to they’re going to come out. You’re going to kind of tell them about the foundation and tell them about the systems that we put in there, you know, drain tile, like how or how the build is is progressing. And, you know, at the next meeting, there’s probably not going to be a ton of stuff to go over. But then once you get up to like drywall and there’s more things going on in the house, it’s like that’s when the meetings start to mean something. Yeah. And there’s a lot more to cover. There’s a lot more questions that they have. And and there’s also time for, you know, there’s just certain timeframes throughout the build where it’s just it’s not a lot to cover. And then other times when especially when it gets kind of towards the end and you’re you’re getting close to getting there. Right.
[00:11:59] Speaker 3 So I think Brian hit a good thing that all of RPM’s, I believe through this, where we’re constantly educating. So if the back office has gone through various details and Pat and Brian at the pre preconstruction mean are going over that, you have to tell a person several times the same thing for it to sink in. So when Brian is going out and looking at the foundation and explaining how the drain tile system works, and now they get it right because they can see it even though they’ve been told probably five or six times, you know, kind of the coin drops, so to speak, and
[00:12:35] Speaker 4 it really engages them into the bill. So I think it makes it a better experience for them if they actually understand what’s going on and how their house is being built. I mean, I’ve had customers tell me in the past like that that, you know, they really had you know, it’s a first time home buyer, that building anyway, right? Maybe not a first time homebuyer, but first time building a house. And it’s like they they don’t they really learn a lot about how that whole process is. And I think they enjoy it.
[00:13:05] Speaker 3 Yeah. And that’s what to Pat’s point gives them a lot of comfort. Right. Because you see how the waterproofing goes in and the drain tile just using them they like, OK, I can kind of relax pretty easy. I saw this going in. Brian explained it to me and. Right. So they sleep better at night.
[00:13:22] Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When they move, when they move not only going through the process but when they’re living in their own, you know, it was built properly.
[00:13:29] Speaker 3 Yeah. And I would say the other thing that the three of us, Pat, myself and Brian are supremely connected or tied into right now is on the corporate level. We have a team of people managing our commodities. Right. And we do have some supply. You know, even in a steady state environment, you can have supply chain issues. Sure. Right. But they’re just, you know, coming out of the pandemic, that just happens to be a lot more supply chain issues. Right. So we are on the corporate side reaching out to suppliers. It could be Daley, right. We’re looking for the weak links because we want to get instantaneous feedback. And that feedback, as soon as we get it, flows down through construction and then we’re able to tell the customer, hey, this is what you should expect. Right. Right. In terms of potential delay. But more importantly, we are ahead of the curve versus perhaps any other builder in the area because we’ve gotten communication as a top 20 builder. Right. That we need to get our orders in quickly. So there is some savings in terms of time for.
[00:14:43] Speaker 1 Yeah. So we’re today we’re having this conversation in July of twenty one and we’re what, eighteen months, sixteen, fifteen months into this pandemic situation. And we certainly you want to talk a little more about the supply chain challenges that we faced and then we then we can take a break and we’ll come. Back and talk more about, yeah, what happens at weekly meetings when we get to the drywall.
[00:15:06] Speaker 3 So I think and Brian and Pack can talk about this as well, excuse me, based on best known information on a daily or weekly basis, we have to change our lead time processes. Mm hmm. You know, so it could have been in the old days, right? Six months ago, we would order windows and doors, you know, foundation. I’m just picking that, you know, now we have to order it well before we even start construction because of the lead time. Right. Is that a fair example? I mean, so we’re managing that, whereas most builders don’t or may not know what the specific lead time is. Mm hmm. And even if we’re ordering a month before we start or whatever it is, there still could be a potential delay. Right. But at least we’re way ahead of it. Yeah. I mean,
[00:16:00] Speaker 2 I’ll say that the purchase the purchase power that Stanley Martin has as a whole, not just from the custom home size, but as a production side, which we buy into, provides us with a greater avenue and understanding of what we’re going to experience. That being said, it’s a constantly changing dynamic. You know, we’re going from periods of four to six weeks, lead time for appliances to two and a half to three months. And sometimes it’s happening overnight. Right. So, you know, it’s a matter of adapting, you know, getting that communication and finding out about it and discovering that that all of a sudden that’s changed overnight for us. Right. And then how quickly can we adapt to it and adjust our lead time schedule for for future homes? And then, you know, what do we do for the homes that are already in the process of being built that we need to adjust on? Right. And it’s you know, in the last six months, it’s it’s becoming a more prevalent part of our day to day business operation, something we have to be completely focused on and paying attention to on a daily basis.
[00:17:07] Speaker 1 And I think you bring up a lot of really good points in that there are different people in different places in the process. Right. So for new buyers coming into the process today, it kind of is what it is. Right. And it’s been on the news and everybody knows and and they just accept that we’re in in a challenging time with with the supply chain. And there’s really not that stress. But then you have people that kind of started this process when we were in more of a normal condition that that may be experiencing more stress with this news. Right, Brian? And you’re on the front line with them. So how are you dealing with that when you’re having your weekly meetings with folks and everything’s going along great and all of a sudden, you know, we’ve got two things. A, you’ve got to deliver. You know, let’s let’s just call it unfortunate news about delays. And then the second piece of that is how are you communicating with the data that you’re getting from corporate about this allied supply chain issues in your in your weekly meetings?
[00:18:07] Speaker 4 It’s really falls back to just just as soon as we find out about it, letting them know and setting their expectations. So, you know, a good example is like Windows. You know, Michael brought it up. We’re wearing these windows way ahead of time. And still, you know, our suppliers are are getting, you know. Probably half the orders that they’re there, half of the order that they have ordered and every week they don’t even know what’s on the truck until it shows up. Right. So with a critical path, items like windows or insulation or something like that, it’s like there’s not a lot we can do with changing the schedule. But, you know, when we used to run our schedules out, you’d set dates. Now I’m actually getting feedback from our trade partners. And if it isn’t a critical path item, it’s almost like I place that and work the schedule around right where those things are coming in.
[00:19:03] Speaker 3 Yeah, but, you know, I would say, you know, one of the things that that helps to some degree is so, for instance, our window supplier has allocated a large warehouse just for our company to house windows. I mean, the but it’s for, you know, thousands of houses, right? Not at one time in a warehouse. So at least we can put we have some leverage to soften the the delays.
[00:19:35] Speaker 2 Yeah. And that’s across the board. It’s not just with our big suppliers like, you know, the door windows and doors, but we have a large group of value contractors that have worked with us for a long time that we have great relationships with that are taking the steps as far as storing hot water heaters in their own personal garages to make sure that we have enough time to be able to put them in the homes and ordering stuff so far out in advance that they have to store them, you know, in, you know, their own personal homes, other places that they can find to make sure that we have them when we need them. Yeah. So that, you know, I have to tip the hat to to the contractors that we work with as well. Right. That are a valuable part of this process that are taking these extra steps to make sure that, you know, that we are able to keep this process going as smoothly as we can. You know, and like Brian said, the biggest part of this is open communication. Right? We talk about the weekly meetings that we have, and that’s a big part of this, because when we sit down, we’re noting when we run into these adjustments. Right. And timelines and lead times and if we can, we’ll amend the schedule to tweak around and work around those items so that we can keep the progress of the House moving forward as best we can so that it doesn’t you know, the change in the lead time isn’t the full impact on the house. Right. If if we experience an additional four weeks, we’re working other things to try to get around that so that maybe it’s a one week delay or a two week delay versus a four four four four week delay in the process. But we’re communicating that to our buyers were noting it on our agendas. We’re tracking it so that when we get to the finish line and they’re looking at us and saying, wait, when we started this process, you told us we are going to finish on X date. Yeah. And we’re now here. We can go back and review it with them and say, yes, yeah, we understand. And it’s an unfortunate time and we want to get you in the home as soon as we can, because that’s beneficial to us as well. Right. However, remember these three things that we came across. Yeah. That’s kind of what the impacts been. And it’s unfortunate. Yes. But that’s kind of where we are.
[00:21:44] Speaker 1 Yeah. And we’re we’re having this conversation in the light of of covid. But these things can happen even without covid. Right. So somebody listen to this two years or three years from now. You know, I think we had one situation some years ago where a cabinet manufacturer suddenly went out of business and we had to reselect cabinets with buyers that were already in the process and there were some delays. So this kind of thing is just it can happen at any time. It’s just really magnified at the moment.
[00:22:16] Speaker 2 It’s it’s magnified right now, not just because of covid, but because the housing industry boom as a whole.
[00:22:22] Speaker 1 Exactly.
[00:22:23] Speaker 2 There are stresses on the market from both coming from two directions which are really causing this to be, you know, over over accentuated, I guess is the is.
[00:22:33] Speaker 3 But to Pat’s point, I mean, how many and I know the answer is none. How many presidents of a plumbing company value their partnership with a large top 20 builder? Right. Where because we’re a sub, you know, we’re just a subset. Right. A niche builder where he has allocated space in his own personal residence. Right. For our hot waters.
[00:22:59] Speaker 1 It’s amazing. Well, you know, I was talking to our carpet subcontractor here a few months ago, and he was in the process of of warehousing our most popular carpets for the same reason, you know, so it’s amazing. All right. Well, we’re going to take a quick break. I’m here with Brian McGranahan, Michael Schnitzer and Pat Kearns. We’ll be back in just a moment. So we are back and talking with Brian McGranahan, Michael Schnitzer and Pat Kearns and Brian, let’s go back to the weekly meetings for a second and refocus on that. So when when you have your weekly meetings, you’ve got your kind of start up period where you’re educating them on the foundation and then really not a lot happening. Right. You’re framing up the house and then you start getting the utilities into the home. Right. We call it the trades. Right. The trades come in. The contractor comes in first, then the plumber, then the electrician. So what’s going on at the weekly meetings at that time frame?
[00:24:02] Speaker 4 So at that time frame, you know, before we start the project, we’re we’re generally making a list of hotspots
[00:24:09] Speaker 1 and what’s a hotspot.
[00:24:10] Speaker 4 So the hotspots are based off of anything that is you know, that’s that’s
[00:24:19] Speaker 3 that either customer brings up says I had a problem with this before or it could
[00:24:24] Speaker 4 be a selection base. Like if there’s something unique about their selections or unique about the design of the home that we want to be hyper focused on to make sure that we’re we’re, you know, staying on top of it. And so those things will kind of carry from week to week. And then, you know, on a on a general basis, it’s like as you’re going through the bill, there’s always questions that the customers are coming up with because they may not fully understand, like what the next step is going to be or how insulation goes in, or why is it that we only insulate the walls but there’s nothing in the roof? Because after we hang drywall, then we’re going to blow insulation in. Right. So it’s just the process of building it and explaining that to them.
[00:25:15] Speaker 2 Yeah. And like the fit and finishes is what a lot of people are focused on. Right. The structure of the home, the the nuts and bolts, the things that hold it all together or what we’re focused on as a builder because we want the house to stand for a long period of time. Right. And be structurally sound. The the fit and finish is what customers are focused in on. They’re looking at, you know, the selections they made, the carpet and how it matches with this and whether they have electrical outlets place so they can place a TV on the wall or they’ve got they’ve envisioned some special bar that they’ve designed. Right. Those are the things that during the weekly meetings that we pay a lot of attention to. And it’s it’s they’re involved in it because we don’t as the builder, we can walk through them and make selections with them, but we don’t necessarily know how they intend to use or live in the home.
[00:26:06] Speaker 1 Right. And I think what their focus is. Yeah. And I think there’s another point to that I’ll bring up. And that’s when when the home starts to go up and they’re walking around the home, they start to visualize themselves living in the home. Right. And they may have had a plan to hang a TV in the family room and they start to see the home coming up and they’ll say, wow, maybe I don’t want it on that wall. Maybe I want it over here on this wall, you know? So are those the type of things that you might be chatting with folks about? Yeah.
[00:26:35] Speaker 3 I mean, we have a literally we have a process to maybe. Brian, you want to talk about just the the electrical least going through where.
[00:26:45] Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, that that that’s a perfect example of where when a customer is sitting down at the, you know, the preconstruction phase, looking at a set of plans in comparison to actually being in the house when it’s framed up, the perspective changes quite a bit. So, you know, before we have the electricians come in and do the electrical Ruffin will have generally I incorporated and one of the weekly meetings to where we go through the electrical layout, we kind of go through the house, we check where, you know, they’ll add recessed cans, ceiling fan prewired, any kind of dedicated outlets, you know, because if they did have, you know, grandma’s lamp that they want to put in the corner and we go through that stuff where their place in the TVs and we do get a lot of requests to where they get in the rec room and they’re like looking at where they propose to put their TV and they decide, you know, actually, I think it would work better if it was on this wall because I’m going to put the couch there. And a lot of times we even have customers. I mean, I just had one recently that went out with blue tape and laid out her couch, laid out her kitchen table to make sure that the lights would line up so smart she was planning on doing with everything. Yeah. And and that also makes it to where it’s sufficient for the trades as well. You know, it’s like we’re we’re we’re basically taking using that opportunity to make sure that it’s as the customer wants before they even start.
[00:28:13] Speaker 1 Right. And I think the electrical is such an important thing. And just just to kind of go over the process. Right. So the first thing is you do your design right. You meet with the electrician and you go room by room by room on your plan and the electrician. Put stickers on the plan where you want recessed lights, where you want to hang a TV, where
[00:28:30] Speaker 3 you want to get back in the design,
[00:28:32] Speaker 1 the design phase. Right, right. Exactly. Thank you. Right. So that’s that’s kind of the first step. And then once once you do, you then review the plan with your with the homeowner before they put all the boxes in or. OK, so then you review the plan and then all the boxes go in and then do you do another walk and you say, here’s where all the switches are, here’s where all the outlets are or how does that phase work?
[00:28:55] Speaker 4 Typically it also varies. Yeah, it varies. I mean, it really varies.
[00:29:01] Speaker 2 But yeah, it varies on the amount of detail that the customer has. There are some customers that have a few things here and there that they’re placing and there’s some that go above and beyond what you see in some models, the number of recessed cans that they install and TVs mounted on the walls and theater rooms, bars in those different things. And, you know, depending on your level of, you know, of items that you’ve purchased and what you’re doing to standard, if it’s more standardized home versus a more customized home with some of those things, we’re going to spend a little bit more time walking through showing those things. But each customer is going to get an opportunity to see where the standard stuff is going, where their placement is, the stuff that they’ve selected and then have an opportunity to look at. OK, this is how I plan or envisioned living in this house. And this works for me. It doesn’t work for me. And we need to adjust. Right.
[00:29:54] Speaker 3 But just think of the savings just for, you know, not paying for rip and tear. Yeah, right. I mean, it’s right. I mean, right now you got to pull out wiring or rewire before it goes into drywall before they and there’s a
[00:30:07] Speaker 4 lot of customers are a lot of questions that that that I ask them when we’re doing that electrical walk them are just from experience like I go through. And I’m Mark on the wall where they’re playing and I’m put in their bed. Right. Nothing more annoying than having a plug in the middle of the headboard. Plug it in your phone to charge at night. You want to have one on either end of your headboard, right? You can have your in your end tables and in our side tables and be able to plug it in freezers in the garage. A lot of people like to put a freezer or refrigerator in the garage and think about it in that that preliminary drawing. So some of our house types that have these monster closets, I think it was Arafa, he had the three car on a Winslow. And it was I mean, it was probably twice the size in this room. Right. And I went there first warranty call, and he had an extension cord running from his room into the closet, hooked to an iron because it wasn’t a single outlet. So I always ask the customers, yeah, you know, what’s your plans in this in this this closet? Yeah, monsters. You know, you’re going to put a steamer or an iron or anything else in there. And those are the things that we cover in those meetings. Right. That I think helped.
[00:31:25] Speaker 2 Yeah, well, in situations change for people to from when they designed to when they when we actually build, you know, their life, sometimes their life situation change sometimes, you know, with all the different avenues that are out there for searching for furniture and ideas, whether it be Pinterest or whatever, they see something that they hadn’t thought of before. That all of a sudden is the new catch thing in in building or in living. And they want to adjust to it. And this provides us an opportunity to to amend to those the situations.
[00:31:56] Speaker 1 Now, is it? So Michael mentioned Rip and Tear a minute ago. So rip and tear is when the all the electricals in and the dry walls and a customer says, OK, I don’t want that outlet there, I want to move on over here. And you literally have to rip out the drywall, tear out the wiring, move the plug and then then fix it. All right. So our process that we have in place to really stop and focus during your weekly meetings on the on the electrical prevents that from happening. Right. So it gives and if a customer, let’s say a customer wants to add three or four outlets that aren’t in the plan during this phase, is that a problem? No, no, no.
[00:32:37] Speaker 2 We just we we we have we have a process in place for that right. Change order process that we have that we go over with them and review with them throughout throughout the the buying process, the reconstruction process. When we sit down and have the preconstruction meeting with them, that’s one of the items that we cover. And a good bit of detail is the judge order process and what it what it encompasses and what what they should expect from us and what we expect from them.
[00:33:01] Speaker 1 Yep. So it’s all it’s all we’re focusing on the experience. Gotcha. All right. So moving on. So is there anything else we should talk about that that I think
[00:33:09] Speaker 3 probably the only other thing Brian touched on, or maybe Pat, which is so the wiring is done, everything’s in place, you know, is the customer checking? Well, we have a form that before we go in to dry. All the customers signs, so a checklist. It’s basically a checklist, but at the highest level, this particular form says that everything that they have selected is in place. So it could be wiring, it could be blocking in the wall for
[00:33:49] Speaker 4 future Bandler
[00:33:50] Speaker 3 future bar
[00:33:51] Speaker 1 bars in a bathroom.
[00:33:52] Speaker 3 So we we force not in a bad way that the customers sign off because we don’t want there to be any ambiguity that, oh, we didn’t put something in. Remember, houses are built by humans. There’s hundreds of thousands of parts and pieces. So by definition, something could be missed after one check, after two checks. So this is maybe the third or fourth check right before we go to closing. Yeah.
[00:34:23] Speaker 2 And I think the weekly meeting makes that makes a little bit easier process. My past experience with other builders is you meet with them and have a pretty come with them. The only other meeting you have with them is pre drywall. And then when you close the house with them and they’re coming out at that pre drywall meeting, having a couple of questions, cold, cold. And it’s a long, drawn out process. As with this, they’re meeting regularly with RPM’s. They’re discussing and having an understanding of the process and what’s going on and what to expect and what to experience. And when we get to the time we get to the predatorial meeting and we’re getting ready to hang drywall, it’s minor in nature and it’s less shock to the system. It’s stressful. They they’ve already been through every weekly meeting and understand what to expect and what’s going on. Yeah. And have seen everything over and over again. So it’s it’s a much smoother, much more regimented process that that makes it less stressful for all involved.
[00:35:22] Speaker 1 Right. And I think that having that form that they sign off on kind of just stops the homeowner and makes them real because it’s easy to get caught up in the excitement of the build. And you’re doing all this stuff and you’re doing all this stuff and having that form is like, OK, wait a minute, I really got to stop and let me just focus. Focus. Exactly. Great work. Great work. So anything else happened before the drywall goes up? Oh, yeah, I
[00:35:48] Speaker 2 know that
[00:35:48] Speaker 1 question. So and so from from a weekly meeting perspective, I really think this conversation we just had about the electrical is huge because I think the homeowner, the buyer is interacting with the switches in the outlets on a daily basis, which
[00:36:03] Speaker 3 we have that Brian knows it. And so certainly pad I mean, we have with HVAC. Yeah. And where the thermostats are located and supplies and returns.
[00:36:13] Speaker 1 Yeah.
[00:36:13] Speaker 3 We have it with specially complicated shower designs with rain cans and faucets and, and handhelds. And we’ll have a diagramed. Right. But before we go to plummet, you know, I don’t know if you want to talk about what kind of stand in the shower and make sure it’s right before we go.
[00:36:35] Speaker 4 I mean, I just had that on one of my houses where the diverters were. They have a ring can with a handheld. So you’re going to have to diverter handles. And they were set on the wall horizontally. Hmm. And, you know, from experience, knowing that, all right, your supply lines are coming out of the sides of that. By the time you put that in, they also had a recessed, Talmage. So by the time I spread those out with the niche, there’s not going to be much room. It’s going to push that niche over into the corner. So that’s like at the weekly. That’s when we discussed why don’t we just move these things vertically? It’s basically has the same appearance. It keeps it symmetrical in there and then it doesn’t crowd that that niche over into the corner. Mm.
[00:37:20] Speaker 2 Yeah. Because there’s a lot of things you look at two dimensionally on paper that makes sense to you. But when you get out there in the field and you’re laying it all out, it becomes reality then that.
[00:37:28] Speaker 1 Right. Right, right. OK, so, so drywall goes up and then we have a period of time where now the trades all kind of have to come back in again. Right. So before drywall, all the roofing work has to be done, then the drywall goes up, then you finish the drywall, you paint. You’ve got to then put your eventually am I going in the right order here? But your outlet covers have to go on your your tile goes in your plumbing fixture.
[00:37:56] Speaker 3 It’s probably one important thing is right. When we get to that drywall phase, we’re starting to think about finalizing the site work. Yes. Right. Good point. So I don’t know if Brian or Pat wants to talk about, but now the house is up. Yeah, we we may have had an allowance for shrubbery and plantings, but it’s hard to really, as Pat said, two dimensionally. It’s hard to see. Now you’re standing in front of the house and that’s graded out. Yep. What do you want? Well, we want to get a. Head of that meeting, Brian, if you want to talk about the process, so, you
[00:38:30] Speaker 4 know, typically when they are doing Ruffins, that’s when I’ll be bringing up the landscaper and scheduling to have a meeting. So we we reach out to the landscaper. We give the information, the homeowners information to him. They’ll schedule a meeting, we’ll meet on site, discuss what they’re what they would like to have. We put a budget in the site cost. And it’s one of those things where they can go under. They can say, no, I want to go right with the budget or the sky’s the limit.
[00:39:02] Speaker 1 So so what that means is maybe they budgeted 5000 dollars for landscaping.
[00:39:07] Speaker 4 Yes. And they’ll meet with them and they’ll say, OK, well, you know, my grandmother’s house had this pretty cherry tree out in the front. I want one of those. Yeah. Whatever shrubbery that they want. And we try and get that proposal back to them around that drywall phase. That way we can get it to the office. I mean, we’re still weeks, maybe even months away from actually installing it. We’re trying to get ahead of the game so that we can get it scheduled. What that site cost is going to be, so that, you know, on occasion customers want to know, like, OK, where do we stand on the site calls? Because that’s going to dictate how much money they want to spend on. Right.
[00:39:44] Speaker 3 Right. And we reconciled the site cost. But there are things just like what we’re talking about when you say, you know what, let’s not reconcile the actual calls for landscaping. It’s just too hard and too too much, too much thought going into something that we know is going to change. Right.
[00:40:02] Speaker 1 So and I think this is just such a great topic to go into for a minute, because at the beginning of the phase, all of our customers want to know how much is this cost going to be right. And we put together a budget and we may put 5000 in for landscaping or 4000 or whatever. Right. I mean, we sometimes have conversations with the buyers at that phase, but then it gets to to to the build. And I guess where I was going a minute ago is kind of the drywall goes up in the house and there’s really not a lot to talk about for a minute, for a few weeks. Right. Because the trades are coming back in and just kind of doing their thing. And now it all gets to be very clear to the homeowner what’s happening in the house. I think people understand tile and switches and all those things. But so so what you’re doing now with your weekly meetings is you’re you’re focusing on the site work, which is great
[00:40:50] Speaker 3 for analyzing the call. Yeah. And being done with it.
[00:40:53] Speaker 1 Yeah. But on that, on that, on that landscaping allowance, you said they could go under I think to elaborate on that so they could meet with the landscaper and they could end up only spending two thousand on landscape. I mean so we’ve budgeted five and they spend too. So now your site cost has just gone down by three thousand dollars. Conversely, we have people who meet with our landscaper and they are purchasing landscaping at Stanley Martin costs. They have one opportunity to do it, so they begin to realize the value they’re getting. And we’ve had people spend 40, 50, 60 thousand dollars. I mean more. I mean
[00:41:29] Speaker 3 stalwartly.
[00:41:30] Speaker 2 So I mean, you can add in hard scaping, right? There’s there’s things you can do to, you know, put a little walkway in pavers, retaining walls, you know, all types of sprinkler systems, all types of things that you can add onto it. You know, we have people that, you know, in a good market sell their home for more than than they expect to. And they’re adding stuff into the house because stuff they they initially intended or wanted to do that they had to maybe cut a few corners on because they were trying to be smart. Yeah. You know, smart and save money. And but then they sell their home for a little bit more. And some of those things that they really wanted. Yeah. That they had decided not to move forward with, they now can purchase.
[00:42:11] Speaker 1 Right. So you’re talking about they sell their existing home. Right. And this is this is fantastic. But they’re also much deeper into the process. Right. And now they’re closer to the finish line and now they understand there’s not
[00:42:23] Speaker 3 a lot of decisions
[00:42:24] Speaker 1 left and there’s not a lot of variables
[00:42:26] Speaker 3 left. Right. But I would say when we go over the site costs that way in the beginning of this is before the customer even removes contingency. If the customer brings up to us, hey, I really want to do a lot with landscaping or a pool or whatever, whatever, you know, that estimate or that allowance is going to get updated to match what our customer says. If our customer says, look, I just want to have a nice basic planting schedule around my house with maybe one or two flowering trees or whatever. That’s right. I mean, so it’s not like there’s any surprise when they you’re meeting with Brian. Right. And if it is a surprise, it’s usually like, wow, you never told us that. Well, yeah, well, I recognize the value and I want to spend an extra 20 grand. Right.
[00:43:13] Speaker 1 Right, right. So a lot of things happen over the course of this transaction. It’s not a five minute transaction or two week transaction. It last really about a year. And you start your planning early and then you get into this situation where you’re. Building, you’ve got your weekly meetings and the landscaping is a great place to splurge at the end if you want to spend more money and we’ve got a process to cover it. So drywall goes up, you’re focusing on landscaping. What else are you hitting on at these at these meetings?
[00:43:41] Speaker 3 Well, could be driveways.
[00:43:43] Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, driveway.
[00:43:47] Speaker 2 We’re also preparing them for the completion of the job. Right. I mean, there’s a lot that goes into it. We’re talking to them about. We’re constantly updating them on on the timeline. And, you know, as you get closer to the end, you’re able to pinpoint a little bit more as to where where you’re going to finish. Right. So it’s talking to them.
[00:44:05] Speaker 1 And regarding a closing date, a closing
[00:44:08] Speaker 2 date and making plans for their move ins and, you know, when can they set up different things to the excitement starts to happen right there. They’ve been in this process, as you said, for sometimes up to a year. Right. And and they’re excited about the completion of it. So we’re kind of walking them through and reminding them about the conversations we had as to what to expect as we get to the end, you know, not just with the completion of the home, but also what to expect from their lender. Hey, look, you know, a lot of lenders in these days, you have to have a U.A. in hand, which means we’re done with the house. What do you want to use in occupancy? So it’s the permit that allows them to move into the home. And obviously, in order for us to get that, the home has to be essentially completed. Right. Well, if the bank isn’t going to start processing their loan until we have the use and occupancy, it’s a little bit longer for them to be able to actually move into the house. Right. So we’re trying to walk them through that process, lead them as to what to expect so that it’s they understand it. They’re not getting hit in the side of the head with, oh, the house is complete, but I can’t move in for another so many weeks. Right. We’ve already informed them and walk them through that process and told them, hey, this is what you should expect. Yeah. You know what I mean. And communicated that to them. So that’s a big part of it, too, is not just, hey, what’s going on in the house when we get to that point, but it’s hey, what to expect as we get to the end and reminding them of those conversations that we’ve had with them and the preconstruction meeting and even before then, when they’re going through a
[00:45:39] Speaker 4 weekly friendly reminder on. Yeah, on on that whole process.
[00:45:45] Speaker 3 Great. Right. Because that is the culmination of everything. Yeah. And they’re so excited to get in. Yeah. And we got to say, look, we know you’re excited, but there are things totally outside our control. Mhm. Right. Like yeah. We can control to a certain extent when we get to use an occupancy permit. Mm hmm. Right. But you have to go back to your lender. Does it take two weeks from the use and occupancy before they can, you know, issue for instance, the last straw. Is it three weeks is a week and a half, but it’s not the next day.
[00:46:21] Speaker 1 Right. Right. There’s some latency there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah. All right. We’re going to take a quick break. And when we get back, we’re going to wrap up our conversation on weekly meetings and we’ll talk a little bit about warrantee. Stay tuned. All right, welcome back. I’m here with Brian McGranahan, Michael Schnitzler and Pat Kearns, and we’re going to close out our conversation today about our weekly meetings and then we’ll talk a little bit about warrantee. Brian, as we close out this conversation, can you tell us a little bit about how the weekly meetings are structured, what happens
[00:47:02] Speaker 4 as the weekly meetings are structured? It’s kind of has several sections. So it starts out with meeting notes from the previous meetings. So you have kind of used that as a placeholder to to where you’re keeping track of anything that needs to stay on their ongoing open. Yes. So those are your action items that were from the week past. And then when they are complete, we usually leave them on there for a week and then just kind of put on their hey, these are complete and then we’ll let them fall off. Right. The next section is new, like change orders, any kind of change orders that we want to keep track of because, you know, our change order process, if you request a change order, it’s going to go on there. You know, it may take purchasing a week or two depending on the complexity of it, to get pricing back. And then once we get the pricing, then we’ll review that at the weekly meeting. Or if it’s in between, you know, we may just contact them and say, do you want to do this? Do you want to move forward? And then once those items are or if they accept them, we send the change to where they sign and then that’ll drop off. We’ll have the next section is usually what’s coming up in the next couple of weeks. So once you kind of get down towards the end of the build all these things, there’s less and less because all the action items are falling off. They’re not putting in change orders. At the end of the build write the trades that are coming into the house. It starts just winding down and just doing those touch touchups, those final polishes on the house. And and then the last section. We always have new items. And again, that’s one that is kind of winds down as the house is winding down, getting closer to the finish line.
[00:48:42] Speaker 1 Right. So now how does our approach toward these weekly meetings affect the punch list at the end of the transaction? So when that when the homeowner when the build is finished and we get to use an occupancy permit, there’s usually a deficiencies list, right. A punch list, things that are that are not completed that we still owe the customers like a we owe you list. Right. So when we have these weekly meetings and we’re approaching the conclusion of the build, how many items are typically on a punch list?
[00:49:16] Speaker 4 So it really varies on the house and the complexity of the house. But to to what you’re saying, as we get close to the and I do ask the customers and I say if there’s something you see, let me know. And a lot of times when they bring it up, I’ve already generated my punch list. I’m writing a punch list on a weekly basis back in the house and every week that is just a flowing document that all the way to the end I’m carrying it. Right. And if it’s something that they see because everybody sees things differently that I did not see, that’s when I usually will put it on that weekly meeting agenda. And then I’ll then transfer over to my punch list. Right. But if we get to the end and it’s more than a page that’s unusual, usually it’s it’s just a handful of items because at that point of the build, it’s like there’s always going to be a little bit of paint and drywall touch. Sure. Kind of things and maybe some cleaning. But the actual items when we do that final walk through, I mean, it’s usually a dozen or less. Right. Which it just it really is a complex
[00:50:25] Speaker 3 system to deal with
[00:50:27] Speaker 2 typically. And they’re typically minimal in nature. They’re not anything that’s substantial because they’ve been involved in the process. And it’s not it’s not as if they weren’t there that we wouldn’t have caught those items or found them or discovered them. It’s more along the lines of it’s an interactive type thing that if there’s things that are that they’re focused on, that they’re hypersensitive to, because we’re having those weekly meetings, we’re we’re realizing that we’re having those interactions with them. We’re having that dialog with them that, hey, this is something that they’re focused on and we want to pay attention to that. We’re going to build a complete home and a home that that meets our standards and our specifications. But as Brian said, each individual is their own person. Maybe they had a past experience with a different build. Maybe a friend of theirs had a build that said, hey, you need to pay attention to this because this happened to us and they come to us with those things. And, you know, those are the things that will pay a little bit more attention to and be focused on. And when we get to the end result, a lot of times because of those interactions, those items are minimalized. They’re very minimal in nature. The things that we’re adjusting and and tweaking at the very end are very not a whole lot of. Involved in it, and it’s just minor tweaks at that point in time.
[00:51:44] Speaker 1 Right. And and the reason I bring this up, because I knew the answer to the question, that particular question before I asked it is that that I think it’s really rare. Right, because I started this whole conversation by saying we are the only builder in our price point that offers weekly meetings. So prototypically you buy a house from a builder. The build you may have you brought up how many went to three meetings during the whole entire build. So the first time the homeowner really gets to go through the house and generate a punch list is right before it’s being delivered to the homeowner. And there could be two, three, four or five pages of items because this is the first time the homeowner is now really hyper focusing on the quality of the build inside and outside. And you get this huge punch list. And I hear from people that I talked to, oh, I built a house with another builder before and it took them two months to finish all the items on the punch list. When we moved in and I explained to them, we don’t have that challenge here in our company because during our weekly meetings, as you’re approaching the clothes, we are addressing the items that would normally show up on a punch list before you move into your home. So I think it is a testament to the quality of our program and our processes in the way we do things. And it’s really amazing. So, yeah,
[00:53:01] Speaker 3 so I think and I John, I would say as a caveat, there can always be longer lead time items, but there are few and far between. You know, a cabinet door takes three weeks out of three days. Right. To be manufactured. But we’re all pulling in the same direction. Right. So there’s there’s compensation for getting a home completed on time for completing the list on time. So we’re all pulling. Right. The customer as well as Stanley Martin in the same direction. Right.
[00:53:32] Speaker 1 Right. Yeah. So go ahead, Pat.
[00:53:35] Speaker 2 No, I just I think overall the process is with the communication level of communication that we have, makes it go a lot smoother at the end. And look like we talked about before, this is a long process. Let’s not kid ourselves. You’re designing a home. You’re taking it through permit. You’re making all these selections. Then you go through the time to build it. It’s been a long process. By the time they get to the end, they’re a little worn out. Sometimes they’re stressed out. They’ve got a lot of things on their mind with regards to moving out of wherever they’re currently living, getting their kids set up in the new school if they’re moving into a new area, all those things. And the hope is that through this process that we’re taking, we’re taking some of that stress away and taking the burden of that away and making that transition for them a lot easier. And that’s important for us, too, because if they’re not stressed out and and uptight about what’s going on, it makes it a lot easier on us as well. And sure, it makes it makes for a happier customer in the long run.
[00:54:37] Speaker 3 And the measurable is the customer satisfaction. Right. We have incredibly high scores. I know over the last you know, the last year we’re still running one hundred percent, which is pretty good.
[00:54:49] Speaker 1 What does 100 percent mean?
[00:54:50] Speaker 3 Hundred percent of our customers are satisfied with their home and would refer Stanley Martin to their friends and families. So that’s pretty. That’s a pretty tough market given where we’ve come from over the room and what we’re going through over the past year. One hundred percent. That’s pretty darn good. Yeah, we can’t get any better, let’s put it.
[00:55:16] Speaker 1 No, that’s true. That’s true. So so let’s talk. So now the homeowner takes possession of the home and they move in. Just talk briefly about what is the warranty process.
[00:55:30] Speaker 2 So, I mean, the first thing that I always talk to the PMS about doing is obviously they’ve gone through this long, drawn out process. Our typical policy is 60 days after they move in, we’re contacting them to go through and see if they’ve come up with anything else. And then again, at nine months, we’re reaching out to them a second time to go over any warranty items that they have. But the big thing that I try to stress with the guys is, look, give them a week to two weeks once they’ve been in the home and they lived in a little bit just to reach out to them to see if there’s anything that they’ve come across, anything that they’ve experienced that, you know, we might need to come out and take a look at for them just because
[00:56:08] Speaker 3 this is before the sixty. This is like a courtesy call. It’s a courtesy
[00:56:12] Speaker 4 call, to be honest with you. I always joke at the beginning at the preconstruction that by the end of the bill, I’m going to be their next their best friend. Right. I mean, you think about the time that we you know, it’s like the back office. I mean, you guys have them for however long. If you divided up in between selection’s and permitting. Right. None of them are working with them within the time frame that we are. Right. I mean, we’re anywhere from six to nine months
[00:56:40] Speaker 1 and meeting a. Every week on
[00:56:41] Speaker 4 a weekly basis, yeah, so my experience is, is by the time they get to that settlement table, they’re texting me anything that comes up for the next month after they moved in, they feel like completely comfortable reaching out and asking, that’s great. And and I’ve had, I mean, multiple customers that it’s been years after they’re in the house that are still reaching out to me text. And hey, I know we’re out of warranty, but this is a situation. And even if we’re not going out and still fixing, at least give them the guidance to. Sure.
[00:57:16] Speaker 2 Yeah, it’s a bevy of information they’re getting, you know what I mean? We’re talking to them when we do the no new home orientation about where all their shutoffs are for their gas, for their water, for, you know, how to run their HVAC system. And all they’re concerned about is I need the keys to be able to move into the house, you know, so they’re you know, you’re trying to get them to focus on, hey, these are the things you need and to be able to have to be able to live comfortably in the home and for you to maintain the home yourself. Right. And we want to make sure they get those things and understand them. But that like Brian said, there’s a lot of those little things that they you know, they’re not focused on it.
[00:57:55] Speaker 1 They want they want to move in and get the beds up and take a nap. Exactly.
[00:57:59] Speaker 3 Exactly right, Joy. Their house, you
[00:58:01] Speaker 2 know, that’s that’s that’s why we have you know, I talk to the guys about doing that little courtesy call. If you haven’t heard from them, reach out to them. Yeah. Just make sure everything went well with their move in. Make sure that there’s nothing that’s come up. That’s a major issue just to make sure that they’re still happy.
[00:58:17] Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, fantastic. And we do
[00:58:19] Speaker 3 tell them, obviously, we have these scheduled warranty visits, but if a customer has a running toilet, don’t hold off until your 60 day list. I mean, that would be almost like I don’t have heat or I don’t have air conditioning. You’re not going to wait. Right? Right.
[00:58:35] Speaker 4 Everything is going to make you lose sleep at night. Just contact us. Right.
[00:58:39] Speaker 1 Right. And things, you know, we build a great home, but things can happen.
[00:58:44] Speaker 3 Well, they’re going to be weren’t I mean, whether it’s adjusting a door or whatever it may be.
[00:58:49] Speaker 1 Yeah. And that’s why we have a warranty here. Fantastic. So anything else that anybody wants to add to this conversation? I think we’ve had a great chat today.
[00:58:58] Speaker 3 Thanks. So any cow tipping out in Prince William and Loudoun County, Brian? Does I mean, Brian’s run so many different jurisdictions you could ask him specifics about, but right now he’s pretty much, I think, one hundred percent of your jobs. Yeah, poorest country, actually. We are getting from Brian will have this project and we’ve already met on site. We have one customer where we’re building a big house. We’ve got hundreds of thousands of land development costs. We’re also there’s going to be a huge cow dairy farm, dairy farm. We’re going to pasteurize and whatever he happens to be Hindu’s. So it’s also processing the manure because it’s, you know, for the Hindus, the cows are are sacred. And so
[00:59:46] Speaker 4 we’re interesting, Bill,
[00:59:47] Speaker 3 it’s. Yeah. That’s coming to a theater near you out towards Middelburg
[00:59:51] Speaker 4 and you get to go through a gate through all the horse pastures.
[00:59:55] Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah. I mean it’s not unusual, but we’ve never had to build a an overall project where there’s pasteurization of milk.
[01:00:07] Speaker 1 Hmm. That’s an interesting one. Well, on that note, let’s let’s let’s. So so anything else you want to add, Brian? Oh, good, good, wonderful. Guys, thanks for coming in. Really enjoyed the conversation. I think it was highly productive. This is another episode of the Go with John Show with Brian McGranahan, Michael Schnitzer and Pat Currence. Thanks, fellows.
[01:00:33] Speaker 2 Thank you for having us.