C. Lee Cawley | Owner of Simplify You, Organizational Expert and Educator

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About This Episode

“Move In Perfection; Moving People in the Right Way, Right Away”
Go With John as he has an engaging conversation with C. Lee Cawley, Owner of Simplify You, Organizational Expert and Educator. C. Lee shares where she focuses her energy when she is working with clients and the importance of “Move In Perfection” moving people in the right way, right away. Don’t miss this exciting new episode!
C. Lee’s Website



[00:00:05] Speaker 1 So welcome to another episode of the Go with John show, today we have C. Lee Cawley with us. Welcome.


[00:00:12] Speaker 2 Boy, thank you. Thank you for having me.


[00:00:13] Speaker 1 Yep. So, so C. Lee. Tell us a little and C period, Lee. Correct? Not silly. So I have to. You have to know how to how to say it. So tell us a little bit about what you do. Tell us what’s the name of your company?


[00:00:29] Speaker 2 So I have two


[00:00:31] Speaker 3 businesses simplify you, which is


[00:00:33] Speaker 2 residential professional organizing and selling. Call AECOM, which is my education component.


[00:00:39] Speaker 1 So tell us a little bit about your organizational company.


[00:00:42] Speaker 2 So right now, it’s a


[00:00:45] Speaker 3 bit of hiatus because


[00:00:47] Speaker 2 I’m going in a new


[00:00:48] Speaker 3 direction.


[00:00:49] Speaker 2 So I have been a residential professional organizer in the D.C. metropolitan region for nearly 20 years. I am a certified professional organizer,


[00:01:00] Speaker 3 which there


[00:01:01] Speaker 2 are less than 400


[00:01:02] Speaker 3 of us worldwide. Wow. Yeah.


[00:01:04] Speaker 2 I’ve been certified since 2008 and we have to have continuing education credits.


[00:01:11] Speaker 1 And so let’s talk about that. Yeah, because because I’m a real estate professional and I have to do it all the time. So how do you become a certified professional organization?


[00:01:19] Speaker 2 So when I did it, you had to have 1500 hours


[00:01:23] Speaker 3 of


[00:01:24] Speaker 2 transferring your skills to another person within three years time. Wow. Which was quite a lot. And so when I finally, I had a banner summer in 2008, just before things changed and I added up my


[00:01:40] Speaker 3 hours and like,


[00:01:41] Speaker 2 I think I have 1500 in 17 hours. And so


[00:01:47] Speaker 3 I studied.


[00:01:48] Speaker 2 I took the month of October off and I studied and I I. This was when we drove to a testing center. I went and on Halloween 2008, I went, took my test and it was a pass fail test and they were very kind and told me that I passed on the way out, so I had a stellar Halloween. That’s great. Yeah. And it’s just it’s a wonderful community. I think all professional organizers are very much collaborators.


[00:02:14] Speaker 3 We all work


[00:02:15] Speaker 2 together, we learn from each other, we sharing products and services. So, yeah, and especially in the DC region, I think we’re really tight knit community.


[00:02:25] Speaker 1 So how many are here in the DC?


[00:02:26] Speaker 2 Oh golly. In my


[00:02:29] Speaker 3 chapter of


[00:02:30] Speaker 2 the DC Metro chapter of the National Association, there


[00:02:34] Speaker 3 are


[00:02:35] Speaker 2 over 100 members, probably 20 are business partners and the rest are professional organizers. And those are just the people who actually invest in being part of a trade association.


[00:02:45] Speaker 3 There are a lot of others.


[00:02:46] Speaker 2 I mean,


[00:02:48] Speaker 3 for good


[00:02:48] Speaker 2 or bad, anybody can call themselves a professional organizer. Not anybody can call themself a certified professional organizer.


[00:02:54] Speaker 3 But right, right. There are a lot of people,


[00:02:57] Speaker 2 you know, were of a female based industry that are kind of just like I was at the time, a stay at home mom. And I’m like,


[00:03:04] Speaker 3 What do I want to do when I grow up?


[00:03:07] Speaker 2 And because I was organized, I thought, Well, let me try this. And this was back in 2003, when I would tell people at events, so I’m an organizer, they’d say,


[00:03:17] Speaker 3 Oh, for what? Trade association, right? They thought I was a laborer. Right, right. Yeah, right. It was just at the beginning.


[00:03:23] Speaker 2 Yeah. So I feel lucky that I was at the kind of the crest, the beginning of that before the waived crest. And I feel like in my entire career, I’ve been able to be


[00:03:31] Speaker 3 just slightly ahead of the curve.


[00:03:33] Speaker 1 That’s where you got to be. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah. So so that’s an important field. I think organization is everything


[00:03:42] Speaker 3 I would


[00:03:43] Speaker 2 agree with you. I think organization productivity is becoming much more recognized in our field as well,


[00:03:49] Speaker 3 which


[00:03:49] Speaker 2 is fantastic.


[00:03:51] Speaker 3 I think that the there’s


[00:03:54] Speaker 2 a trend now and certainly I in my business, I do this as well for kind of just


[00:04:00] Speaker 3 the


[00:04:01] Speaker 2 Instagram


[00:04:02] Speaker 3 visual. Mm-Hmm.


[00:04:04] Speaker 2 But I think that that’s


[00:04:05] Speaker 3 OK, because


[00:04:06] Speaker 2 that’s aspirational. And so I certainly put, you know, I do the


[00:04:10] Speaker 3 beautiful boxes, pretty labels,


[00:04:13] Speaker 2 but it’s got to be functional. So function trumps esthetics. Sure. I’m sure you’ve got to be able to maintain it.


[00:04:20] Speaker 1 So when you organize, folks, are you because because when I hear about organization, I think from a business perspective, you know, I need to. And Nick knows I’ve got to be organized and have my little world starts to get out of kilter. Then everything falls apart for me. So there’s there’s the business aspect of organization, and then there’s the, you know, the home aspect of like having your towels in your kitchen organized in doing so. Where do you where do you spend your energy when you’re working with someone?


[00:04:51] Speaker 2 So I almost always start in the kitchen because the kitchen is the heart of the home.


[00:04:57] Speaker 3 And what I do a lot of


[00:04:58] Speaker 2 is, I call it moving perfection. Mm-Hmm. So when we move, people in the right.


[00:05:04] Speaker 3 Right away.


[00:05:05] Speaker 2 And so we always start in the kitchen because and it’s interesting because we all have plates and forks and dishes, but everyone’s unique and individual, so I’m asking them questions like, Oh,


[00:05:15] Speaker 3 drink, do you drink or tea or coffee? Are you? Are you right


[00:05:18] Speaker 2 or left handed? How tall is the tallest person? You know all of these things? Well, how tall


[00:05:22] Speaker 1 is the shortest


[00:05:23] Speaker 3 person? Yeah, that’s true. That’s so, so. But yeah, so it’s interesting.


[00:05:29] Speaker 2 You know, in my life path and you asked me about life lessons,


[00:05:34] Speaker 3 I realized


[00:05:35] Speaker 2 it’s I’m I’m unlucky. Number eight, I’m in my eighth career now. How many curves have you had?


[00:05:40] Speaker 1 Oh my gosh. I mean, so painting wine? Yeah. Water damage marketing three. Real estate for home building five. Farmer six. I can probably get to 80. Yeah, 87. Podcast or eight.


[00:05:57] Speaker 3 There we go. There you go. I think that that’s I love this


[00:06:00] Speaker 2 because I think that in every


[00:06:03] Speaker 3 career I had, I


[00:06:05] Speaker 2 learned something essential that gave me that helped me lead me to the next one. And not all of them are logical progression. Right, right, right. Right. But it’s so I’m going to let you in on a secret.


[00:06:18] Speaker 3 Yes, OK, be ready. I’m ready.


[00:06:22] Speaker 2 I was Morgan Freeman’s mistress.


[00:06:24] Speaker 1 No way.


[00:06:25] Speaker 3 Yes, I was his wardrobe


[00:06:26] Speaker 2 mistress on driving Miss Daisy


[00:06:28] Speaker 3 off-Broadway in the mid-eighties.


[00:06:30] Speaker 2 Yeah, I saw Morgan Freeman in his underwear


[00:06:33] Speaker 3 twice a day if it was a matinee and an evening show. So that’s fantastic. Yeah, so I


[00:06:39] Speaker 2 actually got my degree in costume and set design right in 85. I’m not ashamed to say and moved to New York City. It was in upstate New York, in SUNY Purchase in Westchester and moved to New York City. And one of my that was one of my first jobs and it was fantastic working with True Professionals off-Broadway.


[00:07:01] Speaker 3 And it’s interesting because at the time I was also because it was a short show I had, I was able to work.


[00:07:10] Speaker 2 In other ways, and so I was a personal assistant to some very wealthy


[00:07:13] Speaker 3 people


[00:07:14] Speaker 2 in New York, and the life lesson I learned from that was that money doesn’t make you happy.


[00:07:19] Speaker 3 Mm-Hmm. Right? I saw people that were unbelievably wealthy,


[00:07:24] Speaker 2 Goldman Sachs


[00:07:25] Speaker 3 partners, et cetera.


[00:07:26] Speaker 2 And they were not happy people. And that was such a


[00:07:29] Speaker 3 great


[00:07:30] Speaker 2 thing to learn at a young age that that’s certainly been a life lesson that I took with me,


[00:07:36] Speaker 3 he said. Those are two


[00:07:37] Speaker 2 of their careers then.


[00:07:38] Speaker 3 I was also a


[00:07:40] Speaker 2 costume designer


[00:07:42] Speaker 3 and I worked for the Joffrey


[00:07:44] Speaker 2 Ballet and the Juilliard


[00:07:46] Speaker 3 School.


[00:07:47] Speaker 2 Yes. And I mean, at the age of 25. Fantastic. This is funny.


[00:07:52] Speaker 3 So I went to the Juilliard School and they’re like, Oh, show us your designs.


[00:07:57] Speaker 2 And I’m like, Here they are, and everything has to


[00:08:01] Speaker 3 be custom dyed silk


[00:08:04] Speaker 2 chiffon. And I was waiting for the laugh because who can afford custom dyed silk chiffon? I’ve been doing off off-Broadway stuff. And there was no laugh.


[00:08:13] Speaker 3 Yeah.


[00:08:14] Speaker 2 And then I was like. And quite honestly, I think I’m going to have to hire myself to do the custom dyeing. And again, they were like, OK.


[00:08:22] Speaker 3 So I was able to have the Juilliard School create my designs.


[00:08:28] Speaker 2 I custom designed dyed my own silk chiffon.


[00:08:31] Speaker 3 You probably couldn’t have had a better working situation.


[00:08:37] Speaker 2 And yet, on opening night, it was a custom commissioned piece. It brand new New York Times opening night, the curtains open. And instead of feeling


[00:08:50] Speaker 3 like, Oh, there’s my creative genius at work, yeah,


[00:08:54] Speaker 2 all I could think of was like, Oh my gosh, when is this going to be over? I’ve seen it a thousand times, right?


[00:09:01] Speaker 3 I want to go get a cocktail. And that was a


[00:09:04] Speaker 2 real epiphany for me because


[00:09:06] Speaker 3 I thought, Wow, if


[00:09:10] Speaker 2 here at this point in my career,


[00:09:12] Speaker 3 which is quite a quite, you know, advanced


[00:09:16] Speaker 2 at the age of twenty five, that’s what I’m thinking. Then maybe this isn’t what I should be


[00:09:21] Speaker 3 doing very clearly. Right?


[00:09:23] Speaker 2 Yeah. And just


[00:09:24] Speaker 3 because you’re good at


[00:09:25] Speaker 2 something doesn’t mean you should do it. Yeah. And that was that was another huge life lesson I learned.


[00:09:31] Speaker 3 And the choreographer said,


[00:09:33] Speaker 2 we’ve been invited to Seattle Ballet to another commissioned piece.


[00:09:38] Speaker 3 She thought we


[00:09:38] Speaker 2 were a team and it was like,


[00:09:40] Speaker 3 Guess what?


[00:09:42] Speaker 2 I’m not going. That’s I’ve decided I’m not going to be a costume designer. She’s like, How can I’m like? Because it didn’t make me happy. My only role models were, you know, at the time on Broadway, women who were unmarried, whose best friends were their cats


[00:09:57] Speaker 3 because they


[00:09:58] Speaker 2 gave everything to their careers


[00:10:00] Speaker 3 or gay


[00:10:01] Speaker 2 men. And I really wanted to have a husband and a family. And I didn’t see a role model for me in that world.


[00:10:09] Speaker 3 So so I, I stopped.


[00:10:12] Speaker 2 So already I’m 28 and I’ve gotten through three of my careers.


[00:10:16] Speaker 3 That’s incredible. Yeah.


[00:10:18] Speaker 1 So and that’s and that’s called being true to yourself.


[00:10:20] Speaker 3 Yes, exactly. Exactly.


[00:10:22] Speaker 2 And so I met my now husband. We will be married 30 years in May, and he’s fantastic.


[00:10:28] Speaker 3 And he moved. He got a job


[00:10:31] Speaker 2 offer in Boston. And so we moved to Boston. I didn’t know I didn’t have any friends. I wasn’t in the theater anymore. I didn’t have any connections. So I just kind of had to reinvent myself. And so I just I started working in retail,


[00:10:44] Speaker 3 but I was able to work my


[00:10:46] Speaker 2 way up. And when we moved to New York, I worked at the Chanel Boutique in Manhattan. I’ve never made so much money and done such little work in my life.


[00:10:53] Speaker 3 Commission based sales? Yeah, fantastic.


[00:10:56] Speaker 1 Well, hopefully they just raise their commissions. I hear the price of a Chanel bag went from 8000. Yes. Hopefully, they’re taking care of their sales reps.


[00:11:04] Speaker 3 Yes. Yeah. But that was a great


[00:11:08] Speaker 2 opportunity because then when we moved to England, my husband went to Cambridge University, got his doctors and we when we moved to England,


[00:11:17] Speaker 3 I was I had this lovely ability to say, Oh,


[00:11:21] Speaker 2 I worked at the Chanel boutique in Manhattan and got a fantastic job working in a very high end, managing a very high end exclusive clothing boutique there. And it was so interesting because this was the 90s in England and customer service did not exist. People would come into the shop and they’d be like, Oh, do you have that in a size six?


[00:11:42] Speaker 3 I was like, Oh, I don’t see it here.


[00:11:44] Speaker 2 Just let me run down to my, you know, inventory spot.


[00:11:48] Speaker 3 Oh no, no, no, don’t go out of your way. I’m like, It is my job to


[00:11:52] Speaker 2 serve and sell to


[00:11:54] Speaker 3 you this.


[00:11:55] Speaker 2 I didn’t do my job because I should know whether I have that in a size six available.


[00:12:00] Speaker 3 So what I did


[00:12:02] Speaker 2 is, and I think you mentioned earlier that you’re organized.


[00:12:06] Speaker 3 I just created


[00:12:07] Speaker 2 like an inventory


[00:12:08] Speaker 3 spreadsheet that was really.


[00:12:09] Speaker 2 Easy for myself and my employees to manage. And I showed it to a couple of my other colleagues who are also managing other boutiques in this franchise. And I go, Oh, can I get a copy of that? And that was when you had to like, go and Xerox.


[00:12:25] Speaker 3 This was before anybody had laptops.


[00:12:27] Speaker 2 And lo and behold, I won like a


[00:12:30] Speaker 3 gold customer service award for a simple spreadsheet, but it just helped us do our jobs better.


[00:12:37] Speaker 1 And so organizing is in your blood.


[00:12:40] Speaker 2 Exactly, exactly. So when we moved back to America in 2000 and I had the luxury of being a stay at home mom for a short time, and that was fantastic as well. One of the things I’m most proud of in my life is that I was one of the founding members of Mona Mothers of North Arlington, which is, I think, 20 700 people strong now. And they have men and women. So. And people like all mothers of North Arlington will be heroes


[00:13:11] Speaker 3 started as


[00:13:13] Speaker 2 moms club international.


[00:13:14] Speaker 3 But we


[00:13:15] Speaker 2 got too many members and they needed us to


[00:13:17] Speaker 3 split. We’re like, Wait, we can just start our own mothers group. And it just so happened that


[00:13:23] Speaker 2 we all lived in North Arlington, and one of my best friend’s name is Ramona Mona. And somebody said, like, what about mothers of North Arlington? We can call it Mona, for sure. I’m like, Oh


[00:13:33] Speaker 3 yes, let’s do that. I mean, we literally decided


[00:13:35] Speaker 2 that in one of our living rooms during a informal board meeting and


[00:13:41] Speaker 3 to see


[00:13:42] Speaker 2 that community


[00:13:43] Speaker 3 grow.


[00:13:44] Speaker 2 So that’s another life lesson. I moved here knowing


[00:13:48] Speaker 3 nobody, right? I was desperate for friends. I had a two year old.


[00:13:53] Speaker 2 I just, you know, when somebody was like, Oh, there’s a moms group, I’m like, Sign me up, let me go there. And because it’s such a transient, I mean, this is what you do.


[00:14:01] Speaker 3 You build homes. You people move. It’s so great that they are able to


[00:14:06] Speaker 2 find this community, and we were just word of mouth, like on a playground. Oh, you should join Mona. And this was where I was the membership


[00:14:14] Speaker 3 board member


[00:14:16] Speaker 2 again. You know, I’m like, What’s your address? Let me mail you a membership form. You can mail it back


[00:14:21] Speaker 3 with a check for $12 like it was. Yeah, yeah, no.


[00:14:25] Speaker 2 It’s almost hard to even fathom, right? But it’s one of the things I’m still active in Mona. I have a twenty three year old now.


[00:14:33] Speaker 3 I joke that I will be the first to start to grandmothers, but not for a decade or so.


[00:14:39] Speaker 2 Liz Lydia, if you’re listening, but I just think that that sense of community, of finding others


[00:14:47] Speaker 3 like you is


[00:14:49] Speaker 2 just been


[00:14:50] Speaker 3 so powerful. So, yeah, so


[00:14:53] Speaker 2 that was a fantastic thing. But you know, the stay at home thing got a little bit


[00:14:58] Speaker 3 old for me, I got to tell you.


[00:14:59] Speaker 2 So when my daughter went to kindergarten,


[00:15:02] Speaker 3 I was like, OK, well, what do I want to be? What can I


[00:15:06] Speaker 2 walk? You know, what can


[00:15:07] Speaker 3 I do and still be a great


[00:15:10] Speaker 2 wife and a great mom and a good friend and organizing?


[00:15:14] Speaker 3 And twenty three was just becoming like people.


[00:15:18] Speaker 2 We’re being aware of it.


[00:15:20] Speaker 3 And so I thought, that’s it.


[00:15:23] Speaker 2 Everything that I do, I wasn’t a brilliant costume designer. I could get things done on time and on budget.


[00:15:31] Speaker 3 Mm-Hmm.


[00:15:31] Speaker 2 I wasn’t an amazing salesperson, but I knew how much inventory I had and where I could find it.


[00:15:37] Speaker 3 It was all.


[00:15:39] Speaker 2 Everything I had done was that I was successful in was because I was organized


[00:15:45] Speaker 3 and I thought, Well, I want to teach this to other people when


[00:15:49] Speaker 2 I started my business. They knew me as the toy tamer because of


[00:15:53] Speaker 3 course, everybody had toys


[00:15:56] Speaker 2 and I have a great system for helping people manage their toys.


[00:15:59] Speaker 3 Kids are adults, kids toys, kids toys. Yeah, yeah. Just just saying, I know. Yeah, so but you also say it’s all


[00:16:10] Speaker 2 just systems based,


[00:16:12] Speaker 3 logic based, so. So it


[00:16:15] Speaker 2 was nice that I was


[00:16:15] Speaker 3 able to teach people these skills,


[00:16:18] Speaker 2 and the best compliment is when they’d be like, OK,


[00:16:21] Speaker 3 well, we got to figure


[00:16:23] Speaker 2 it out. We don’t need you anymore. And then my work here is done. I did my job right. Mm hmm.


[00:16:29] Speaker 3 So yeah, it was.


[00:16:30] Speaker 2 That was it’s been very it’s been very satisfying to help so many families and individuals locally.


[00:16:38] Speaker 3 But then I got a little. I got not I don’t want to say bored,


[00:16:44] Speaker 2 but I needed some more challenge.


[00:16:46] Speaker 3 So I should


[00:16:47] Speaker 2 have brought one to show you in 2016.


[00:16:51] Speaker 3 I pitched


[00:16:52] Speaker 2 this hanger that we used in my retail


[00:16:56] Speaker 3 stores all throughout Europe,


[00:16:58] Speaker 2 and


[00:16:59] Speaker 3 it


[00:17:00] Speaker 2 it’s a very unique hanger that


[00:17:02] Speaker 3 holds skirts or


[00:17:04] Speaker 2 trousers from inside the waistband with gentle tension. And when I when we move back to America,


[00:17:12] Speaker 3 I


[00:17:12] Speaker 2 literally went to Bed Bath Beyond, I’m like, you know, I need some of those stretchy hangers


[00:17:16] Speaker 3 like, What are you


[00:17:17] Speaker 2 talking about? So the next time I went, I brought one of my with me like, I need one of these. They had never seen it. Wow.


[00:17:23] Speaker 3 So had always


[00:17:24] Speaker 2 been in the back of my head and HSN in 2016 was having I was accepted into their first American Dreams program because they wanted to bring unique products to the home shopping network. And it was an amazing three day Daymond John came a symposium in in D.C. and so I was like, This is my this


[00:17:49] Speaker 3 is


[00:17:50] Speaker 2 this is what I’m going to do. I’m going to be the importer. I called them holding hangers. You can go to YouTube and look up holding hangers and see me pitching them.


[00:18:00] Speaker 3 And it


[00:18:01] Speaker 2 was fantastic. In fact,


[00:18:05] Speaker 3 on


[00:18:05] Speaker 2 March 12, 2020,


[00:18:08] Speaker 3 I


[00:18:08] Speaker 2 won a pitch contest it front and a $1500 check


[00:18:13] Speaker 3 to do with as I


[00:18:14] Speaker 2 want, because a company felt so strongly that my idea was


[00:18:18] Speaker 3 brilliant.


[00:18:18] Speaker 2 Wow. And then we know that then the world fell apart. I kind of think March


[00:18:22] Speaker 3 13th that that Friday the 13th was the day


[00:18:26] Speaker 2 that everything turned upside


[00:18:27] Speaker 1 down. Yeah, we were Thursday, March 12th. Yeah, yeah. We have that date still written on our wall in our office.


[00:18:33] Speaker 3 That was the


[00:18:34] Speaker 2 day I won my pitch contest, and the next day we had to go get my daughter from college and all of a sudden organizing we


[00:18:42] Speaker 3 lit legally


[00:18:44] Speaker 2 couldn’t go into people’s homes only if you’re helping people move in.


[00:18:49] Speaker 3 So there we sat. But everybody started


[00:18:52] Speaker 2 clearing out their closets, and all of a sudden I was selling hangers.


[00:18:57] Speaker 3 We would I.


[00:18:59] Speaker 2 They were in my basement. We packaged them up.


[00:19:01] Speaker 3 We’d walk over to the UPS store. We’d literally throw the package in the store or


[00:19:07] Speaker 2 as so not to go in, right? And so I called my supplier


[00:19:13] Speaker 3 there, created


[00:19:14] Speaker 2 their European and my supplier in Sweden. And this was kind of end of April. And I thought to myself, OK, if organizing, if this is the end of my industry, this is what I’m going to do.


[00:19:27] Speaker 3 I’m so glad I’ve already started.


[00:19:29] Speaker 2 I’ve had two and a half years. I’m going to invest and get a container. I’m going to really


[00:19:34] Speaker 3 go big or go home. I called Karl up and like Karl,


[00:19:39] Speaker 2 I need a price for a container of hangers. And he said C. Lee and his Swedish accent, he said the factory’s going out of business.


[00:19:48] Speaker 1 Oh no.


[00:19:50] Speaker 3 And that was exactly I was like, what? This was my alternative career,


[00:19:56] Speaker 2 I’ve been working towards this for three and a half years.


[00:19:59] Speaker 3 I said, Well, let’s ask


[00:20:01] Speaker 2 them if I can buy the molds and then maybe I can have maybe them made in China or someplace else.


[00:20:08] Speaker 3 I really liked the European engineering.


[00:20:10] Speaker 2 Mm-Hmm.


[00:20:12] Speaker 3 Yeah. The molds weren’t available.


[00:20:14] Speaker 2 Hmm. And so Bob Coleman, who’s a member who’s a score adviser here in Arlington, he and this is my other lesson learned. Find a mentor. Find someone who believes in you almost as much as you believe in yourself. And Bob Coleman believed in me, and he was coaching me throughout this entire process.


[00:20:33] Speaker 3 And I called him up and I said, Bob, I don’t know what to do.


[00:20:39] Speaker 2 I’m running out of inventory. And he said, Well,


[00:20:43] Speaker 3 he’s like, Tell me the


[00:20:44] Speaker 2 problem. And I was like, like, my factories closing. They won’t sell me the molds global pandemic. Oh, and they won’t let me trademark the name holding hanger either. And he said to me said, You know what’s silly?


[00:20:57] Speaker 3 He’s like, if you had just one of those problems, you’re clever. You could overcome that. But he said,


[00:21:04] Speaker 2 You’re telling me these four things. And I was like, Oh, you’re right. I need to shut down that business. And it wasn’t until


[00:21:12] Speaker 3 he echoed back to me that I realized how crazy it would be to pursue that.


[00:21:17] Speaker 2 And thank goodness, because now


[00:21:20] Speaker 3 what is it? If it used


[00:21:21] Speaker 2 to be a container used to cost $2000, it costs $20000. It wouldn’t be sustainable. Sure.


[00:21:27] Speaker 3 Think gosh, I got out of it


[00:21:30] Speaker 2 before I had invested in a container filled. And so


[00:21:34] Speaker 3 that


[00:21:34] Speaker 2 was the lesson of having a trusted mentor


[00:21:39] Speaker 3 to coach me. So here I am.


[00:21:42] Speaker 2 And it’s,


[00:21:43] Speaker 3 you know,


[00:21:44] Speaker 2 May 2020. There’s no organizing


[00:21:48] Speaker 3 and there’s no hangers. And I was like,


[00:21:56] Speaker 2 What am I going to do? I’m too young to retire.


[00:21:58] Speaker 3 I’ve got a lot to offer. And it always


[00:22:01] Speaker 2 frustrated me that


[00:22:03] Speaker 3 I could only help people that I could drive to or fly to. I had


[00:22:07] Speaker 2 some of my clients send me to their holiday homes in Maine or Florida or


[00:22:11] Speaker 3 wherever, but I was limited by


[00:22:15] Speaker 2 my time, right?


[00:22:16] Speaker 3 It wasn’t dollars for hours.


[00:22:19] Speaker 2 And of course, I’m one of the highest priced organizers in the D.C. metropolitan region. And still, people know that they’ve gotten great value for their money.


[00:22:27] Speaker 3 But I sat and I thought. How could I teach this on a bigger scale? Because that’s


[00:22:34] Speaker 2 that’s how I know I’ve been successful and people like,


[00:22:37] Speaker 3 you set us up


[00:22:37] Speaker 2 great. Everything’s labeled. We got this. We don’t need you anymore. I’m like, Great.


[00:22:42] Speaker 3 I taught you how to do it. So because of


[00:22:47] Speaker 2 silver linings of COVID, all of a sudden we’re all on Zoom. We’re all understanding that we can.


[00:22:54] Speaker 3 You know, I got


[00:22:55] Speaker 2 all of my education hours. I learned so much because I was stuck at home with my computer.


[00:23:00] Speaker 3 Mm-Hmm. I thought maybe I could do that.


[00:23:04] Speaker 2 So that’s that’s my eighth career. I’ve reinvented myself yet again, and now I am an organizing expert and educator and I’m launching online courses.


[00:23:15] Speaker 1 Wonderful is that. That’s a separate website.


[00:23:17] Speaker 3 Yes, that’s the silly call e-comm. Gotcha. So, so yeah.


[00:23:21] Speaker 2 So it’s I’ve launched my


[00:23:24] Speaker 3 first course to over


[00:23:25] Speaker 2 70 people. It’s happening right now. It’s been fantastic. I’ve got people from California to literally England. Wow. And you know, it’s


[00:23:38] Speaker 3 it’s super


[00:23:38] Speaker 2 satisfying. I have a copyrighted method of paper management and everybody’s got, you know, they said


[00:23:44] Speaker 3 we were going to be a paper free society, right? They lied. They did lie. They lied. And so and so I’m able to help people.


[00:23:52] Speaker 2 My goal is to eventually help a million people worldwide.


[00:23:56] Speaker 3 Wow, that’s a pretty impressive goal.


[00:23:57] Speaker 2 I mean, I’m going to live for at least another 40 years, so why not?


[00:24:02] Speaker 3 So I think that it’s exciting.


[00:24:05] Speaker 2 So I’ve turned the challenges that I’ve faced in my career, and I could I could just stay organizing. I know you’re in the home business. Home business is booming right now. Everybody’s stuck at home. They are desperate to get organized.


[00:24:20] Speaker 3 But I’d rather refer


[00:24:21] Speaker 2 that business out to my colleagues who are starting their businesses and really go in 100 percent in this new endeavor. So it’s an exciting time. I think


[00:24:32] Speaker 1 it is. Yeah, it is. So we’re going to we’re going to take a quick break. Wonderful story. You know, it was really great. I enjoyed hearing all that. We’re going to take a quick break, right? And we will be back with more from Kelly Colley. Thank you. So welcome back, we’re still chatting with Sealey colleagues. So thank you again for coming in. Thank you. I’m enjoying hearing your your stories are great. So tell us what tips would you give young adults who are considering your career path?


[00:25:10] Speaker 3 Oh, I think


[00:25:11] Speaker 2 that this is fantastic, and I I’m a mentor to a lot of new organizers. And it’s again something I really enjoy doing. I’m really proud of


[00:25:21] Speaker 3 because what I tell them


[00:25:24] Speaker 2 all is, it doesn’t matter if you’re an organizer,


[00:25:27] Speaker 3 a baker or


[00:25:28] Speaker 2 a candlestick maker, you’re a business owner. Mm-Hmm. And you need to approach this from a business perspective. And I think that that’s part of the problem in this kind of gig economy. Anybody can be a, you know, organizer. I’m kind of organized, I’ll organize your closet and they price themselves at rates


[00:25:46] Speaker 3 that are


[00:25:46] Speaker 2 less than, you know, a cleaner. I’m like, This is a skill.


[00:25:50] Speaker 3 This is something that people will pay for that they should be paying for. But you have to approach this as a business.


[00:25:58] Speaker 2 You need to, you know, either you have to establish a business entity, you need to get a business license, you need to separate your personal and business finances from the very beginning. You need to know your metrics, know your numbers, know your your profit percentage, all of these things and people look at me and they’re like, I like, then maybe you’re not


[00:26:20] Speaker 3 cut out right, right, right, right. You need to approach


[00:26:24] Speaker 2 it as a business for it to be successful. My business


[00:26:27] Speaker 3 was


[00:26:27] Speaker 2 extraordinarily successful. I was in, you know,


[00:26:31] Speaker 3 well over six figures, right, for the last five years.


[00:26:36] Speaker 2 Even in, I had an astounding first quarter in 2020 and then kind of brought things back. Even in that year, I did over $100000. Because I I. I know my value, I know my worth,


[00:26:53] Speaker 3 and I charge it.


[00:26:54] Speaker 2 And I


[00:26:55] Speaker 3 also


[00:26:57] Speaker 2 come at it from a service perspective, so not only you’re a business person, you


[00:27:01] Speaker 3 need to delight,


[00:27:03] Speaker 2 astound you.


[00:27:04] Speaker 3 You need to.


[00:27:07] Speaker 2 Organizing is not that complicated, right?


[00:27:09] Speaker 3 Anybody can do it right. But you need to.


[00:27:13] Speaker 2 You know, one of the things I offer is


[00:27:15] Speaker 3 labels for life, right?


[00:27:17] Speaker 2 And I’m just like because my label makers quite unique. And it makes slightly different sized labels because it’s one that I purchased in 2003. I literally have to get them on eBay now


[00:27:27] Speaker 3 because I can’t use a different label. So I’m like,


[00:27:30] Speaker 2 Just send me a picture. I’ll make you labels is enough to put in the mail


[00:27:35] Speaker 3 because


[00:27:37] Speaker 2 you know you need to. I think you do this in your business. You need to go above and beyond. Right? I think Walt Disney the one, it’s like, Well, how can we plus it?


[00:27:47] Speaker 3 What?


[00:27:47] Speaker 2 What extra level can you give? And so I’m, you know, forever. Even now, my clients are like, Oh, what would you recommend for this narrow closet door?


[00:27:58] Speaker 3 I’m like, I have the solution for you. Here’s the link because


[00:28:02] Speaker 2 you’re not the only one with a narrow closet door. I’ve already figured this out, and I’m happy to share my knowledge.


[00:28:07] Speaker 3 So to circle back if


[00:28:10] Speaker 2 I think that this is a fantastic business to get into and there’s some young organizers, I know a couple of people


[00:28:17] Speaker 3 right out of college who


[00:28:18] Speaker 2 have started organizing businesses, but they realize they’re starting a business, so they should be taking business classes. I mean, business classes and organizing classes,


[00:28:28] Speaker 3 productivity classes should all be taught as


[00:28:30] Speaker 2 basic things right in because


[00:28:34] Speaker 3 look at us, we’ve both had eight careers. Nobody does the


[00:28:39] Speaker 2 sign up for General Electric and work their way up. That’s what our parents did. It’s right. You know, my I grew up in Endicott, New York, home of IBM. Both my mom and dad were IBM. You know, from the


[00:28:51] Speaker 3 day they started, my father got out of World War


[00:28:53] Speaker 2 Two went IBM retired.


[00:28:56] Speaker 3 Forty years later, right? Same with my mom.


[00:28:59] Speaker 2 But that’s unheard of for us, right? Unheard of for the certainly the younger generation. So find a mentor. That’s the lesson I’ve learned all the way through. Find a mentor. I’m happy to be a mentor to to the people coming up and giving them really honest advice


[00:29:18] Speaker 3 scores a great resource, but treat it


[00:29:21] Speaker 2 like a business and know your numbers and set


[00:29:24] Speaker 3 yourself goals. You have to set yourself goals.


[00:29:27] Speaker 2 It’s just not kind of like, Well, if the phone rings, I’ll go work. Hmm. How are you going to make that happen, right? You know, I’ve I’ve been lucky. I have never had to advertise in my entire career.


[00:29:37] Speaker 1 That’s wonderful,


[00:29:38] Speaker 2 because word of mouth Yelp notes,


[00:29:41] Speaker 3 Yelp reviews,


[00:29:42] Speaker 2 people hear about me and next door women run this town. I’ve never been running in my life, but somebody must have said something really nice about me on their listserv once because I hear from those


[00:29:54] Speaker 3 lovely ladies all the time.


[00:29:56] Speaker 2 You know,


[00:29:57] Speaker 3 it’s the power of a good word of mouth, but you can’t just wait


[00:30:02] Speaker 2 for the phone to ring. So I think in everything and you know this as well, you have to be a marketer. Mm hmm. I mean, now I’m a course creator. I hope to teach my organizing method to


[00:30:13] Speaker 3 people worldwide,


[00:30:14] Speaker 2 but I have to market to them for them to even hear about it. How are they going to find out about it?


[00:30:18] Speaker 3 Right, exactly. So, so


[00:30:20] Speaker 2 taking marketing courses is another, you know, but the young people,


[00:30:24] Speaker 3 they’re so good


[00:30:25] Speaker 2 with the social media. Mm hmm. My daughter was home and she’s like, This is how you do Instagram. It’s still not quite sure


[00:30:31] Speaker 3 about it, but luckily I also have a fantastic virtual assistant that helps me with that. So that’s great. So, yeah,


[00:30:38] Speaker 1 so so what kind of crazy things have you run into when you’ve been out there organizing? You have got to have a story or two.


[00:30:45] Speaker 2 So, you know, I tell


[00:30:47] Speaker 3 people that


[00:30:48] Speaker 2 I don’t care as long as it’s not


[00:30:50] Speaker 3 illegal drugs or


[00:30:52] Speaker 2 loaded weapons, you can have whatever you


[00:30:55] Speaker 3 want. But I did have a client


[00:30:59] Speaker 2 and you know, we usually start in the kitchen, but she’s like, I’d really I need a good night’s sleep. I am not sleeping silly. I’m just like insomnia up on. I’m like, OK, well, bedroom’s important too. So we get into her bedroom and there’s a couple of things that are just, you know, Oh, they had too many screens and


[00:31:20] Speaker 3 you know, they it was


[00:31:22] Speaker 2 cluttered and a mess. And so I’m not a feng shui person, but I was kind


[00:31:28] Speaker 3 of like, Well, what do you have on your bed? What’s all this? She’s like, Oh,


[00:31:33] Speaker 2 it’s my husband’s samurai sword collection.


[00:31:36] Speaker 3 Like, that could


[00:31:37] Speaker 2 be why you’re not sleeping very


[00:31:39] Speaker 3 deeply, because you’re literally sleeping over blades. And they had of a


[00:31:45] Speaker 2 big linen closet


[00:31:48] Speaker 3 full of


[00:31:49] Speaker 2 linens and the reason why the swords were on the. Bed there were too long to go anyplace place else


[00:31:53] Speaker 3 like, let’s just switch this, let’s put your,


[00:31:55] Speaker 2 you know, off season linen soft and fluffy under your bed. Let’s put the samurai swords in that linen closet


[00:32:03] Speaker 3 with maybe a lock. And let’s just see. And of course, we got rid of the


[00:32:08] Speaker 2 screens and we tidied


[00:32:10] Speaker 3 up. And to this day, she’s like,


[00:32:13] Speaker 2 You fixed me.


[00:32:14] Speaker 3 She’s like, I sleep like a baby.


[00:32:17] Speaker 1 So were the swords like in between the mattresses.


[00:32:20] Speaker 3 They were just under the bed, but you could like see


[00:32:23] Speaker 2 them under the.


[00:32:23] Speaker 3 It was so.


[00:32:25] Speaker 2 So it’s crazy. Things like that. I mean, that is crazy. Yeah. You know, I’ve seen all kinds of things, costumes and collections. People are very interesting and and and I


[00:32:40] Speaker 3 also feel


[00:32:40] Speaker 2 privileged and lucky that they have been vulnerable enough to invite me into their homes to say I can’t manage this. And I always say to them, You know,


[00:32:50] Speaker 3 it’s not you.


[00:32:51] Speaker 2 Your parents couldn’t have taught


[00:32:53] Speaker 3 you


[00:32:54] Speaker 2 how to manage this. Your parents didn’t


[00:32:57] Speaker 3 have the ability to buy


[00:33:00] Speaker 2 this much. There weren’t so


[00:33:01] Speaker 3 many goods or,


[00:33:03] Speaker 2 you know,


[00:33:04] Speaker 3 it used to be you get


[00:33:05] Speaker 2 mail and it would be a postcard from your grandmother, a bill and a newspaper. Now we’re inundated.


[00:33:12] Speaker 3 So crazy. Yeah. So I say to people, don’t feel that you’re lacking.


[00:33:17] Speaker 2 You just were never taught because you couldn’t have been taught. And you know, and we’re dealing with so many other things, but the samurai swords jump out is one of those things, because the other thing is, I can’t really tell.


[00:33:29] Speaker 3 Sure. So I appreciate


[00:33:31] Speaker 1 that. Yeah, no. That’s a good one. So, so obviously, you’re an organizer and you have experience organizing homes, and I build homes with Stanley Martin. And you know, there’s a lot of things that you have to think about when you’re trying to organize a floor plan around people, how people live. So, you know, for the folks that are listening that are that are building a new home, which our buyers can either customize a home or they can take one of our homes already designed and just build it. What kind of tips do you have for folks that that are that are designing a new home? Or you can also add to this and or what what kind of tips do you have for getting moved into your home because you said, what did you say earlier? Move in perfection?


[00:34:19] Speaker 2 Yeah. Moving perfection? Yeah. Yeah, so great question. So a couple of things that trends that I’m seeing is


[00:34:26] Speaker 3 that


[00:34:27] Speaker 2 no matter what, homes aren’t built with enough storage space and one of the things I’m trying to design in because I do some consulting on new home builds or renovations is


[00:34:38] Speaker 3 almost


[00:34:38] Speaker 2 creating a boxing room,


[00:34:42] Speaker 3 a place where close to wherever


[00:34:45] Speaker 2 the Amazon boxes are coming in. And again, this is something ten years


[00:34:50] Speaker 3 ago


[00:34:51] Speaker 2 you’d get an occasional package in the mail. Now, I don’t know about you, but I never go into a real store. Even now, I can write.


[00:35:00] Speaker 3 Why would I want it so much easier just


[00:35:02] Speaker 2 to order something? It is.


[00:35:04] Speaker 1 You’re right. Yeah, I mean, half the time they don’t have what you want, you get in


[00:35:07] Speaker 3 there and our time is so valuable. You know, I don’t know what you charge, what your hourly rate is,


[00:35:13] Speaker 2 but it’s much cheaper for me


[00:35:14] Speaker 3 to


[00:35:15] Speaker 2 order something. So and I think that that’s true


[00:35:17] Speaker 3 with so many people worldwide.


[00:35:20] Speaker 2 So it’s creating some type


[00:35:22] Speaker 3 of large closet that these boxes


[00:35:26] Speaker 2 can go into next to an entryway. There’s sometimes a trend with these new open plan floor bills that there’s no coat closet or anything right now.


[00:35:37] Speaker 3 You’re right.


[00:35:37] Speaker 2 And then also just putting and I’m sure you do this plugs in every closet, lights in every closet. When I go into a new home and I open a closet and a light doesn’t automatically come on, I’m appalled. Right. And if there’s not a plug in there that I can put a


[00:35:54] Speaker 3 DustBuster Roomba, a


[00:35:56] Speaker 2 Dyson again, I’m appalled.


[00:35:59] Speaker 3 It takes so little to add that, you know, so.


[00:36:02] Speaker 2 So those are some things that I’m telling people. If you can customize, you’re never going to be wishing you had no one ever


[00:36:12] Speaker 3 wishes like, Oh, I have way too much storage space, right? Everybody’s like, I need more storage space, right?


[00:36:18] Speaker 2 So if that can be built in at the beginning, that’s great.


[00:36:20] Speaker 3 I love


[00:36:22] Speaker 2 considering truly


[00:36:23] Speaker 3 adjustable


[00:36:25] Speaker 2 shelving in every


[00:36:27] Speaker 3 space, whether


[00:36:28] Speaker 2 it’s a kitchen, a pantry, a closet, a linen closet. So often I see builders will put 17 inches from the shelf. It’s like there’s nothing in a pantry that’s 17 inches, except for maybe a KitchenAid mixer, which people are going to have on their counter because


[00:36:47] Speaker 3 they’re like a showpiece.


[00:36:49] Speaker 2 So they. About, you know, the


[00:36:51] Speaker 3 largest


[00:36:52] Speaker 2 cereal box is only 13 inches.


[00:36:55] Speaker 3 So if the fights


[00:36:56] Speaker 2 are adjustable, then we can fit a lot more in. So it’s things like that. I always encourage my clients to question and ask about. And if it, you know, they’re like, Well, that’s a little upgrade. I’m like, That’s an upgrade that’s going to be worth it.


[00:37:09] Speaker 1 They’re all. They’re all worth it. Yeah, you know, and it’s, you know, I’ve built many homes for for myself over the years and all the little things that you spend money on, you really appreciate it. When you’re living in the home, you do.


[00:37:22] Speaker 3 And not only that,


[00:37:23] Speaker 2 you’ll get your investment back when you sell eventually. So I do think sometimes it’s it’s Pennywise and pound foolish. I had a client who moved into the Watergate million-dollar home. They spent $10000 on us getting them moved in, she said. That was one percent


[00:37:42] Speaker 3 of the cost of our


[00:37:43] Speaker 2 home, right? But we now we can enjoy our home.


[00:37:46] Speaker 3 She said it was absolutely worth every penny.


[00:37:51] Speaker 2 And I, you know, and so I think that people need to


[00:37:55] Speaker 3 have


[00:37:55] Speaker 2 again, a much


[00:37:56] Speaker 3 bigger picture.


[00:37:58] Speaker 2 You know, instead of being Pennywise pound foolish type of idea. But no, I think with new home builds, more storage mud rooms and looking at at angles.


[00:38:12] Speaker 3 So I had a


[00:38:14] Speaker 2 client, beautiful home from their dining room table because it was an open plan. You could see


[00:38:19] Speaker 3 all the way through to the mud room. Hmm.


[00:38:22] Speaker 2 Like when I’m doing fine dining, when you’re you do not want to.


[00:38:26] Speaker 3 It was just they just they didn’t


[00:38:28] Speaker 2 do the floor plan, right?


[00:38:30] Speaker 3 They could have.


[00:38:31] Speaker 2 And you don’t want a door every time you’re going in and out of the room.


[00:38:35] Speaker 3 So it was just like, Oh, if only somebody had stopped


[00:38:38] Speaker 2 to think


[00:38:39] Speaker 3 about


[00:38:41] Speaker 2 sightlines and things like that. Sometimes those things I’m like, Oh, we could. That could have been fixed. But now it can’t, because that house been built in.


[00:38:49] Speaker 3 Those walls aren’t moving. So, you know, just


[00:38:52] Speaker 2 those are some of the things I


[00:38:54] Speaker 3 I want people to be aware of.


[00:38:56] Speaker 1 Right. So so how do you approach so when somebody moves into a new home, how do you approach moving perfection?


[00:39:04] Speaker 3 Oh yeah. So I look at


[00:39:06] Speaker 2 the plans because as again, everything I was a set designer. I understand a floor plan and not every organizer does, but I do. I understand, you know, you’re going to open your kitchen drawer and it’s going to measure 19 and three quarters inches because that’s the standard measurement.


[00:39:25] Speaker 3 So I


[00:39:26] Speaker 2 understand those concepts so I can apply


[00:39:28] Speaker 3 those ideas to


[00:39:30] Speaker 2 your kitchen so I can look at your kitchen plan and say, OK,


[00:39:36] Speaker 3 that’s a


[00:39:37] Speaker 2 30 inch wide.


[00:39:38] Speaker 3 We’ll be able to fit three sets of plates, you know, or whatever


[00:39:42] Speaker 2 the case may be.


[00:39:43] Speaker 3 It’s just like shoes.


[00:39:44] Speaker 2 Shoes take up nine inches. So don’t give me a 30 inch shelf for shoes, because that’s only going to be two and a


[00:39:51] Speaker 3 half pair of shoes, right? Right. Make it 30. Like just it’s basic math.


[00:39:56] Speaker 1 I always depends on what size the shoe is.


[00:39:58] Speaker 3 I know, right? Right. It does. It does, unless you’ve got really tiny. Right? And again,


[00:40:03] Speaker 1 how long is a shelf?


[00:40:05] Speaker 2 All right? A 14 inch, 14 inch step depth.


[00:40:08] Speaker 3 But you want to make it at


[00:40:10] Speaker 2 least in nine to 10 inch increments.


[00:40:12] Speaker 3 Right, right, right. And adjustable because shoe heights. Very.


[00:40:16] Speaker 2 Yes. You know,


[00:40:17] Speaker 1 for the ladies,


[00:40:19] Speaker 3 for the men as well. Men, there’s high top sneakers. That’s true. You know, there’s


[00:40:23] Speaker 2 boots, all kinds. If it’s adjustable, it doesn’t matter


[00:40:27] Speaker 3 who lives there, either.


[00:40:29] Speaker 2 Brand new build in Vienna. Beautiful clients, multi-million dollar home in the primary female closet. There was no long hanging.


[00:40:41] Speaker 3 Hmm. It’s as if that’s no did


[00:40:43] Speaker 2 not own a dress. And even if she didn’t own a dress. We all have these long, fashionable cardigans, right?


[00:40:49] Speaker 3 So she had to, at great


[00:40:51] Speaker 2 expense, rip


[00:40:52] Speaker 3 out what the builder


[00:40:54] Speaker 2 had put in to have it all patched up and had a beautiful install done, which we could customize. And she used my advice and it’s gorgeous.


[00:41:03] Speaker 3 But if only the builder had just thought about it or just


[00:41:08] Speaker 2 said, OK, let me give you a credit, you go ahead and put in a beautiful


[00:41:11] Speaker 3 closet. So, yeah, I mean that little bit extra.


[00:41:14] Speaker 2 And I know, you know, when you’ve just moved in, it’s like everything cost a million dollars,


[00:41:18] Speaker 3 but you have to


[00:41:19] Speaker 2 be able to function.


[00:41:21] Speaker 3 Where could she have put her dresses? She’s right. They literally were across


[00:41:24] Speaker 2 the hallway in her daughter’s


[00:41:26] Speaker 3 closet. So that’s no good. Yeah, exactly. That’s not going to help her get dressed in the morning.


[00:41:30] Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, one of the challenges with building a new home is everybody runs out of money. You know, every buyer has a dream and every buyer has a budget, and the dream is always bigger than the budget. And I think things like decks and, you know, closet organizers and garage, you know, a. Hoxie on the garage floor, a nice, nice organizational things in the garage. They cost the same if you do it with the builder when you’re building or if you do it after. And I think a lot of people just run out of money and they intend to come back to it. But that’s probably one of the reasons why a lot of the builders don’t put them in because it’s going to drive the price higher. And it is pretty personal, I think, too. I agree either on the on the closet organizers, but they are nice. You know, I do appreciate when my closet is organized and you’ve got drawers in there


[00:42:22] Speaker 2 and yeah, you can just go into because especially in the beautiful homes you’re building, a closet is going to measure at least


[00:42:29] Speaker 3 12 by twelve.


[00:42:30] Speaker 2 That’s the size of a standard bedroom in my house. Yeah, but yeah, but you know, if it’s


[00:42:35] Speaker 3 a closet that big, you’re


[00:42:36] Speaker 2 going to want to be able to walk in there and fully addressed. You don’t want to have to walk into another room to get your underwear or socks.


[00:42:42] Speaker 3 You want some drawers in there. And so it is. It’s I think


[00:42:46] Speaker 2 well, and this is where I always tell people I’m like, Put your money where you spend your time,


[00:42:51] Speaker 3 right? So you spent


[00:42:52] Speaker 2 you spend your time in your kitchen. We all have to get dressed in the morning, even if it’s just putting on sweats to jump on a Zoom call.


[00:42:59] Speaker 3 All right, so you don’t


[00:43:01] Speaker 2 spend time in your garage,


[00:43:03] Speaker 3 right? You don’t have


[00:43:04] Speaker 2 to spend time in your storage space in the basement. Right? So those can come afterward.


[00:43:11] Speaker 3 But for


[00:43:12] Speaker 2 me, it’s always kitchens, bathrooms,


[00:43:15] Speaker 3 closets, pretty much in that


[00:43:16] Speaker 1 order. Yeah, no. That makes perfect sense. Fantastic. So, C. Lee, anything else you want to add? This has been a great. Oh my gosh.


[00:43:24] Speaker 2 No, this has been delightful. No, I just


[00:43:26] Speaker 3 I


[00:43:27] Speaker 2 I think that if anybody’s interested, they can go to C. Lee, call AECOM


[00:43:31] Speaker 3 my course. It’s called the paper cleanse.


[00:43:34] Speaker 2 And it’s how we take people from clutter and chaos to clarity and calm. I teach them how to get rid of the pesky piles and the frustrating files for a lifetime of paper organization. And it’s no scanning needed. So if they’re kind of a digital dinosaur like I am, I’m not going to say, Oh,


[00:43:52] Speaker 3 scan it all because that’s not realistic. So it’s a it’s a we’re


[00:43:56] Speaker 2 having a lot of fun and I’ll be opening up the course probably again later


[00:44:01] Speaker 3 this year.


[00:44:02] Speaker 1 Fantastic. Well, C. Lee, thank you so much for coming in and greatly enjoyed chatting with you today.


[00:44:08] Speaker 3 Thank you, John. I really appreciate it.


[00:44:10] Speaker 1 Take care.